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Subject: Percy-L: Literary, Religious, Scientific, and Philosophical Discussion of Walker Percy

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  • From: Jim Wesson <gypsyjimmy1 AT yahoo.com>
  • To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: RE: [percy-l] "...to the gas chamber..."
  • Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 20:41:44 -0800 (PST)


thanks. i will look into 'the corrections,'and please
go when you have time and enjoy pg wodehouse.
jim





--- David Alan Beck <dabeck AT iupui.edu> wrote:
> Jim,
> Actually, my class has been discussing the humor in
> Lancelot. I was
> droning on about Kierkegaard and Marcel, etc., when
> one student commented
> how funny the book is. And I'm glad she said that,
> because despite the
> murders, betrayals, adultry, etc. it is a funny, in
> a dark, sardonic way.
> (Of course, they just finished Joyce's The Dead and
> Conrad's Heart of
> Darkness; at this point, in their eyes, a
> blood-letting would give rise to
> chuckles and chortles.)
>
> I hope I don't open a can of worms here (or the
> wrath of the list), but
> if your reading group wants a lighter but
> interesting read, check out
> Franzen's The Corrections. I thought it was a great
> summer read (hey, and
> give the guy points for turning down Queen Oprah).
> -David
> On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, Jim Wesson wrote:
>
> > david,
> > thank you and ,yes, you made sense. i have
> noticed
> > ,as a matter of fact,that it in our ramblings that
> we
> > often make the most sense. or at least i do .
> > life is getting a bit heavy and one remedy i
> came up
> > with was to change my reading group from Faulkner
> to
> > p g wodehouse. a wonderful decision.
> > peace to all,
> > jim
> > i guess i love wp as a story -teller most and as
> > having interesting characters. like f. o'connor.
> both
> > can be read on a light level also,and that's what
> i
> > have to do. they are the most to say the least!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- David Alan Beck <dabeck AT iupui.edu> wrote:
> > > Jim,
> > > I think you are missing the point. If you look
> at
> > > malls, pop culture in
> > > general, it's business (i.e. aesthetic
> > > attractions--in the Kierkegaardian
> > > sense) as usual. And they are all a barometer
> for
> > > where WE are. Bailie's
> > > comment I think stands. What is particularly
> > > dangerous is not what is
> > > obviously crazy--i.e. genocide, etc.--but what
> lulls
> > > us to sleep by its
> > > "comfortableness." Soft music, sanitized
> > > environment--to me, that is
> > > closer to Percy's use of despair than the more
> > > obvious, sensational event
> > > like 9/11. Obviously, "the mall" is (by me and
> > > Bailie) symbolic with what
> > > is wrong with our culture: soft, soothing,
> > > seductive, and meaningless.
> > > Find fulfillment through "things." No god, no
> > > introspection, no search is
> > > necessary. It's all here, self-contained.
> > > Karey's reference to Marcel's dichotomy of
> being
> > > and having is right on
> > > target. You can "be" anywhere--shopping mall
> > > included--but if we are
> > > seduced (and I often am)into thinking that
> "having"
> > > is being or even a way
> > > to becoming, then "the mall" has won. (Perhaps,
> if
> > > the mall is part of our
> > > search, then that's ok, as long as we see that
> the
> > > true beauty and mystery
> > > lies in the other--the clerk, the passer-by,
> etc. In
> > > other words, I'm not
> > > making the sacred/profane distiction; the
> mystery is
> > > everywhere, making
> > > the search possible no matter where we are.)
> > > I'm rambling. Does any of this make sense?
> > > -David
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, Jim Wesson wrote:
> > >
> > > > lord, many things worse than malls.
> > > > really,cheer up,they arn't that bad,are they?
> > > >
> > > > jim
> > > > --- David Alan Beck <dabeck AT iupui.edu> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The rare times I'm in the mall, two words go
> > > through
> > > > > my mind: kitsch and
> > > > > despair (of course, kitsch and
> sentimentality go
> > > > > hand-in-hand). Gil Bailie
> > > > > refers to shopping malls as museums of
> nihilism.
> > > > > -DB
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, 6 Mar 2003 marcus AT loyno.edu wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Does anyone share with me the feeling I
> get in
> > > any
> > > > > shopping mall that 90%
> > > > > > of what is offered in most shops and
> boutiques
> > > is
> > > > > congealed
> > > > > > "sentimentality" (aka "cute")?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If so, is this tied into the exhortations
> by
> > > our
> > > > > leaders to try to buy our
> > > > > > way out of post 9-11 fear and to ignore
> their
> > > > > (our?) preparations for mass
> > > > > > murder?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Fearful trembling in New Orleans one day
> after
> > > Ash
> > > > > Wednesday.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Marcus Smith
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Percy mentions this in Lost in the
> Cosmos,
> > > too.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Something like..."Humans are sentimental
> and
> > > > > violent; or rather,
> > > > > > sentimental
> > > > > > >therefore violoent.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I suspect he meant that our tendency
> toward
> > > > > violence is not due to a
> > > > > > focused
> > > > > > >ideological rage or fury but something
> much
> > > less
> > > > > interesting --banality.
> > > > > > >Sentimentality is a kind of dreamlike
> > > insanity
> > > > > that masquerades not just
> > > > > > as
> > > > > > >reality but as a kind of improvement on
> > > reality,
> > > > > a sort of banal utopic
> > > > > > >uber-reality. Additionally, it may be the
> > > case
> > > > > that when a man's (or
> > > > > > >woman's) sentimental vision is challenged
> or
> > > even
> > > > > destroyed, either
> > > > > > >internally or externally, the violence of
> his
> > > > > response is magnified in
> > > > > > >direct disproportion to the distance the
> > > vision
> > > > > was away from reality.
> > > > > > >Rather like having one's dreams
> shattered.
> > > Maybe
> > > > > its the dissapointment
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > >drives the rage. (I've seen this in my
> own
> > > > > relationships. Once, after
> > > > > > >hearing a friend sentimentalizing her
> > > eventual
> > > > > wedding day, I remarked on
> > > > > > >the silliness of her fantasies, and that
> she
> > > was
>
=== message truncated ===


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>From Nikkibar AT aol.com Fri Mar 7 00:04:44 2003
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Subject: Re: [percy-l] aentiment and death
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Friends,

Every time we get off on this romp, I wind up bewildered why we have it and
wind up wondering just who is saying what? It occurs to me that the
discussion might be clearer if we defined just what we mean by sentimentality
both our own and Flannery O'Connor's and Walker's. For my own part, refusal
to get involved with the issue is at the root of the reason that I don't have
pets put down when they're terminal. Of course everybody thinks I'm a cruel
son of a bitch for adopting this position. By the lights of this discussion,
am I or not? And if so, why? And if not why not?


Nikki

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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#ffffff"><FONT style=
=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Times New R=
oman" LANG=3D"0"><B>Friends,<BR>
<BR>
Every time we get off on this romp, I wind up bewildered why we have it&nbsp=
; and wind up wondering just who is saying what? It occurs to me that the di=
scussion might be clearer if we defined just what we mean by
sentimentality=20=
both our own and Flannery O'Connor's and Walker's. For my own part,
refusal=20=
to get involved with the issue is at the root of the reason that I don't hav=
e pets put down when they're terminal. Of course everybody thinks I'm a crue=
l son of a bitch for adopting this position. By the lights of this discussio=
n, am I or not? And if so, why? And if not why not? <BR>
<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
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p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Nikki</B></FONT=
></HTML>

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>From Tpmonaghan AT aol.com Fri Mar 7 00:07:00 2003
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Subject: [percy-l] on shortchanging the shoppers
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Ken Armstrong wrote: "So who was shortchanging the shoppers? It was
shopping as salvation that was being scrutinized. Let us, whether or not out
of laziness or sloppy
thinking, not confuse the issue."

Being lazy and sloppy is not new to me or confusing an issue, but it did
strike me that shoppers and the shopping mall were linked together. Perhaps
that is my thin skinned sentimentalism. If the shoppers were not being
shortchanged, are they being overcharged, i.e. charged with seeking
"salvation in shopping?" I don't really see great numbers of people who see
shoppng as salvation. Just as I don't see many drinkers who see drinking as
salvation. Most view such practices, even when they are vices, as an escape,
and some moderate escape is necessary for most of us. The Onion had a great
article on Americans hungry for the inane and mindless after September 11.
>From piat1 AT bellsouth.net Fri Mar 7 08:11:57 2003
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Subject: Re: [percy-l] "...to the gas chamber..."
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Ken Armstrong wrote:

> Actually I was half-tempted to agree that your umbrage with Jim for the
> Christian crusade remark might (might: take a look at the latest issue of
> First Things with its declaration of the "just war" about to commence)be
> justified,

Dear Ken, Steve, Folks--

Me too --and more than half! Once again I went too far with my careless
and offensive rhetoric. I apologize to all. Even at sixty-one years I'm
still trying to figure out how to explore and vent my ideas and feelings
among friends without going overboard and offending my friends
sensibilities. Often I fail and I appreciate the fact that you are all a
forgiving bunch. Truth is I have great admiration for Percy, O'Connor and
all of you. And I greatly enjoy the lively exchange of ideas on this list.
So I don't want to spoil the congenial and mutual respectful atmosphere that
makes this possible and again apologize for my offensive rhetoric.

Imagine the potential for misunderstanding and hurt feelings that such a
discussion might engender among folks of different faiths, nationalities,
languages and cultural histories!

And, Jim -- yes, I too find Percy and O'Connor very funny and a mostly
just a delight to read. I realize, also, that none of my interpretations do
any of their writings justice, but nonetheless I find discussing their work
great fun and can't resist the urge to do so. Hope business picks up soon!


Best wishes,
Jim Piat




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