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Subject: Percy-L: Literary, Religious, Scientific, and Philosophical Discussion on Walker Percy

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  • From: David Alan Beck <dabeck AT iupui.edu>
  • To: marcus AT loyno.edu,<percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Cc: PARLINS AT culver.org
  • Subject: RE: [percy-l] "...to the gas chamber..."
  • Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 16:34:56 -0500 (EST)


The rare times I'm in the mall, two words go through my mind: kitsch and
despair (of course, kitsch and sentimentality go hand-in-hand). Gil Bailie
refers to shopping malls as museums of nihilism.
-DB

On Thu, 6 Mar 2003 marcus AT loyno.edu wrote:

> Does anyone share with me the feeling I get in any shopping mall that 90%
> of what is offered in most shops and boutiques is congealed
> "sentimentality" (aka "cute")?
>
> If so, is this tied into the exhortations by our leaders to try to buy our
> way out of post 9-11 fear and to ignore their (our?) preparations for mass
> murder?
>
> Fearful trembling in New Orleans one day after Ash Wednesday.
>
> Marcus Smith
>
>
>
> >
> >Percy mentions this in Lost in the Cosmos, too.
> >
> >Something like..."Humans are sentimental and violent; or rather,
> sentimental
> >therefore violoent.
> >
> >I suspect he meant that our tendency toward violence is not due to a
> focused
> >ideological rage or fury but something much less interesting --banality.
> >Sentimentality is a kind of dreamlike insanity that masquerades not just
> as
> >reality but as a kind of improvement on reality, a sort of banal utopic
> >uber-reality. Additionally, it may be the case that when a man's (or
> >woman's) sentimental vision is challenged or even destroyed, either
> >internally or externally, the violence of his response is magnified in
> >direct disproportion to the distance the vision was away from reality.
> >Rather like having one's dreams shattered. Maybe its the dissapointment
> that
> >drives the rage. (I've seen this in my own relationships. Once, after
> >hearing a friend sentimentalizing her eventual wedding day, I remarked on
> >the silliness of her fantasies, and that she was setting up an unlikely
> >scenario. Her response was vituperative and cutting).
> >
> >Sound right?
> >
> >SP
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Jim Wesson [mailto:gypsyjimmy1 AT yahoo.com]
> >Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 12:11 PM
> >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
> >Subject: Re: [percy-l] "...to the gas chamber..."
> >
> >
> >
> > But there was much tenderness in the forced labor
> >camps . just as 9-11 brought out much tenderness.
> >there is tenderness all over.
> > jim w.( can not back this up philosophically etc.
> > just like to read Percy and O'connor.)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--- "Karey L. Perkins" <karey AT charter.net> wrote:
> >> I don't know -- except that the quote came from her
> >> originally, as Allen and
> >> Robert said.
> >>
> >> The quote from O'Connor's "A Memoir for MaryAnn"
> >> reads...
> >>
> >> "In the absence of this faith now, we govern by
> >> tenderness. It is
> >> tenderness which, long since cut off from the person
> >> of Christ, is wrapped
> >> in theory. When tenderness is detached from the
> >> source of tenderness, its
> >> logical outcome is terror [terrorism?]. It ends in
> >> forced labor camps and
> >> in the fumes of the gas chamber" (p. 227 Mystery and
> >> Manners).
> >>
> >> Sounds like O'Connor and Percy are saying the same
> >> thing.
> >>
> >> KP
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Jim Wesson
> >> To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
> >> Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 11:29 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [percy-l] "...to the gas chamber..."
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> so please, how does f. o'connor come into all this?
> >> jim w
> >>
> >>
> >> --- "Karey L. Perkins" <karey AT charter.net> wrote:
> >> > Marcus,
> >> >
> >> > Percy is speaking in this interview with Zoltan
> >> > Abadi-Nagy about the hidden
> >> > dogmas of the secular point of view: Dogma 1 --
> >> > rejection of human
> >> > uniqueness and thus of the uniqueness of man's
> >> > symbolizing capacity. Dogma
> >> > 2 -- the noble savage (no original sin). That is,
> >> > secular humanism preaches
> >> > the absence of any "unique and fatal flaw [in
> >> > man]... that cannot be laid to
> >> > the influence of Western civilization."
> >> >
> >> > He concludes that critiques are necessary, not
> >> just
> >> > of fundamentalist
> >> > beliefs, but of secular humanism and scientific
> >> > inquiry (for the latter to
> >> > be "free"). "The warning: if it is not, if it is
> >> > subject to this or that
> >> > ideology, then do not be surprised if the history
> >> of
> >> > the Weimar doctors is
> >> > repeated. Weimar leads to Auschwitz. The
> >> nihilism
> >> > of some scientists in
> >> > the name of ideology or sentimentality and the
> >> > consequent devaluation of the
> >> > individual human life lead straight to the gas
> >> > chamber" (p. 396,
> >> > Signposts).
> >> >
> >> > In an earlier essay he spoke of the
> >> > "theorist-consumer" which I think
> >> > relates to this as well...especially the
> >> "theorist"
> >> > part -- which is not
> >> > concerned about the particular individual. I
> >> think
> >> > it also relates to
> >> > "ideology" which he uses above. And also to
> >> > "utopian" visions, which Hitler
> >> > had, which is concerned about the creation of
> >> > perfect society at the expense
> >> > of the individual.
> >> >
> >> > So I agree with you that "sentimentality" is a
> >> > reductive way of viewing the
> >> > situation. It seems more like this: If you are
> >> > sentimentally attached to
> >> > your ideology or theory or utopian vision at the
> >> > expense of true empathy and
> >> > compassion for the particular individual before
> >> > you....well, "to the gas
> >> > chamber."
> >> >
> >> > Which is why God came to us as a particular
> >> > individual.
> >> >
> >> > Relating to current events -- I've had a hard time
> >> > swallowing some of the
> >> > patriotism since 9/11 -- not that I'm not a
> >> patriot
> >> > or not for my country,
> >> > but really, it smacks of Percy's "sentimentality"
> >> > and seems dangerous -- in
> >> > danger of subsituting for true religious feeling.
> >> > It can become idoloatry
> >> > (another aspect of ideology/theory/utopian vision
> >> > commitments at the expense
> >> > of the individual). Loyalty to and commitment to
> >> > and sentiment for country
> >> > before God (i.e.: more importantly than God) --
> >> that
> >> > IS idolatry.
> >> > Marginalizing of the "other" (the Muslim or the
> >> > middle-easterner, now; the
> >> > Jew then) because they are not "American" or
> >> > "Christian" is idolatry and
> >> > ideology, and it arises from sentimentility for
> >> YOUR
> >> > "side" or theory or
> >> > vision or ideology. In addition, it's easy to
> >> do
> >> > if these people are
> >> > "theories" but once they are real people, it's
> >> > impossible (or more
> >> > difficult) to do.
> >> >
> >> > When God is first, we are all one before Him.
> >> >
> >> > Karey
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: marcus AT loyno.edu
> >> > To: karey AT charter.net ; percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
> >> > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 10:20 AM
> >> > Subject: Re: [percy-l] "...to the gas chamber..."
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Is the list discussing the remark that
> >> > sentimentality leads to the gas
> >> > chambers? (I'm coming in late.)
> >> >
> >> > The Percy list has visited this phrase before, and
> >> > maybe these discussions
> >> > are still available.
> >> >
> >> > I recall making a small demurrer. It wasn't just
> >> > sentimentality that led
> >> > the way to the gas chambers, though that seemed to
> >> > be where the quote took
> >> > the discussions. There was (and is) also
> >> > anti-semitism which doesn't
> >> > require sentimentality to thrive. The causes of
> >> the
> >> > holocaust, as everyone
> >> > here realizes, is an enormously complex subject.
> >> > The focus only on
> >> > sentimentality is extremely reductive.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Check the archives.
> >> >
> >> > Marcus Smith
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >MessageWhen, what context or work, did O'Connor
> >> use
> >> > it?
> >> > >
> >> > >KP
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >----- Original Message -----
> >> > >From: Robert_Pauley AT oxy.com
> >> > >To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
> >> > >Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 8:26 PM
> >> > >Subject: RE: [percy-l] "...to the gas chamber..."
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >It was Percy quoting O'Connor.
> >> > >
> >> > >R. Pauley
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: Karey L. Perkins
> >> [mailto:karey AT charter.net]
> >> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 5:35 AM
> >> > > To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
> >> > > Subject: [percy-l] "...to the gas chamber..."
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > I wasn't sure if it was Percy who had
> >> originally
> >> > said this, or Percy
> >> > >quoting Flannery O'Connor or someone else. I
> >>
> >=== message truncated ===> --
> >>
> >> An archive of all list discussion is available at
> >> http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy/hypermail
> >>
> >> Visit the Walker Percy Project at
> >> http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
> >>
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
> >http://taxes.yahoo.com/
> >--
> >
> >An archive of all list discussion is available at
> >http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy/hypermail
> >
> >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
> >--
> >
> >An archive of all list discussion is available at
> http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy/hypermail
> >
> >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
> >
> --
>
> An archive of all list discussion is available at
> http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy/hypermail
>
> Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
>
>
>


David Beck





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