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  • From: Stephanie Gerson <sgerson@stanfordalumni.org>
  • To: <pcplantdb@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: [pcplantdb] synthesis[20][9.8.04]
  • Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 09:46:51 -0700

Oi gente,

Sorry if I’ve been a bit of a stranger lately…

So here’s the scoop:

-POST TO PC LISTS –
Lawrence wrote in his public announcement:
“The purpose of this forum is to help individuals, groups and organizations
promote and develop information resources on permaculture. This includes
books, magazines, journals, bulletins and pamphlets, hardcopy and electronic,
as well as websites, mailing lists, databases, weblogs, wikis and content
management systems.”

I’m sorry Lawrence, but I feel that your post does not accurately reflect
what hg is about – at least in it’s Phase 1, which involves relationship
between plants. (When we move on to general information resources on
Permaculture, we can announce it then.) I already asked you this once but I
will ask you again: before you communicate with the public, please solicit
feedback from the group about your communication. You asked what you should
tell the public, I responded to your email (and asked you to please wait!),
yet you clearly didn’t heed my suggestions.

I understand that there are *many* people subscribed to the Permaculture list,
and our initial impressions are important. I know your intentions were
sincere, but I would appreciate you not going at this alone.

Your post gave me the impression that hg is a mishmash of Permaculture-related
information and resources, which it is not intended to be – otherwise, it
would be the same as your website. This was the point of me writing up my
vision and a draft of the post to PC list – so that we could be clear about
our intentions BEFORE posting! Not trying to reprimand, just frustrates me
when I spend quite a bit of time thinking something through and you simply go
ahead with it.

Furthermore, did we agree that I would be the PR person for the group? I
think I remember someone nominating me… Either way, I nominate myself.
(And Lawrence, if you want to do this – just speak up.) I would like us to
have a unified voice, and be clear on what we are so we can express that to
the public in a coherent way.

Feedback on this por favor?


-SHARED WEB WORKSPACE –
Ok, so does the website Chad’s been working on and folks have been adding to
(thank you! I dig the stephaniegerson.org idea) satisfy our need for a shared
web workspace? Because isn’t this also going to be hg’s homepage?
Hmmm…do we want our workspace and homepage to be one and the same? For
instance, I don’t know if I want to be posting grant-seeking info for all
the public to view…then again, if it’s going to be a _shared_ web
workspace, might as well share it all the way?

Needing some clarification: is permaculture.info going to be our shared web
workspace, our homepage for the public, or both? And if not both – since
people seem to be happy with the format, why not use this format (instead of a
wiki) for our shared web workspace?


-WEBSITE –
Speaking of the website, Chad wrote: “Just a quick clarification. The site
is set up so that EVERYONE who has an account can add/change stuff. You don't
have to wait for me to do if you have a little time to figure out how it all
works... little more complicated than a wiki and WAY more powerful.”
Esta bien. Let’s all add/change stuff, but we (er, I) need to learn how.

So, Chad wrote, “I found the interface quite intuitive, but that's me.... I
will post good howto docs if I run across them. One thing that is optional but
helpful is to learn STX (structured text) which is the markup language for
plone. You can also use plain text or html, but stx is pretty powerful,
intuitive, and fast. This is a pretty good howto
<http://plone.org/documentation/howto/UsingStructuredText>. Actually,
the whole first section of <http://plone.org/documentation/howto> is
pretty good info for learning how to use it.”
Not intuitive to me, and I will probably need the how-to docs.

Chad also wrote, “Actually I think it's best to start stuff including news
articles in 'my folder' (your user folder)…Documents that you create should
either be started in the documents folder or be cut and pasted there.”
Can we please discuss the scope of what we will be posting up there? Are they
going to pertain to the logistics/technicalities of this project, to
information about relationship between plants, or to Permaculture in general?
Because I fear that if we don’t define our scope now, it will become a
mishmash of Permaculture information (many of which already exist – and
although it might be useful, it wouldn’t be distinctive). Thoughts?

In this vain, Rich wrote, “Not really relavant at this stage, but a personal
bug-bear about this sort of site is having an overloaded front page, with the
latest news on it, and all sort of other stuff.”
I completely agree. I would rather have less information that is more
relevant (to whatever theme – logistics, guild information, or otherwise –
we specify) rather than a larger quantity of information that is less
relevant, and more general.

Rich also wrote, “As a new user the first thing I want to know is what is
this site about and is it worth me spending any more time exploring the site,
often you need to explore a few links just to get that basic info.”
Basically, why is this site different from all other sites?


-PROJECT PLAN–
Updates anyone?

Also, in synthesis[19], I (re)raised the topic of Phase 1 goals and sent out
Johns’s working doc. Scott also asked about a timeline. Should we attach
dates to the Phase 1 goals? I know that you’ve preferred the task lists
without dates/weeks, but perhaps we should attach (flexible) dates to the
major milestones. I’ve re-pasted the Phase 1 goals below. Please review,
and make suggestions for a timeline if the goal pertains to you! Otherwise, I
will make an arbitrary timeline and then ask for edits (more work for me).

I’ve added tasks to the task list and new questions below. They are
condensed, meaning there’s less shtuff to wade through, meaning please check
them! And send me any new tasks you see yourself performing.

About the Sunday task updates: these are also for fund distribution purposes
(to determine who did what, how long it took, and how to compensate them). So
please be clear with what you did and how long it took you to do it. Also,
please send these to me as Word attachments, so I can start archiving them. I
know that $ is an incentive…


-ZOPE/Ibiblio –
Thanks for reminding us about this issue, Scott! We’d completely forgotten
it! hahaha…yes, we are still waiting to hear from Chad and Rich. But
whenever you decide whatever you decide on, I definitely give you the
go-ahead!


-MISCELLANEOUS –
à oy ve, how is your foot Chad? Sounds painful…

à Responding to my ramblings regarding Biomimicry in software development,
Rich wrote, “I supose this is applying permaculture to website design!”
Exactly. I will soon send links to the branch of Industrial Ecology I was
referring to – super fascinating.

That’s it for now.

hasta luego
*s


p.s. If it takes you a long time to read, it took someone longer to write...

…………….
LATEST TASKS
· Everyone – now
o Make an account on bugzilla, create bugs, check Johns’s docs (has
anyone
done this, Johns?)
o Add/change stuff to/on permaculture.info website – do we want photos
of
ourselves up there?
o Check Phase 1 goals below, respond with feedback and timeline ideas
o Respond to the questions below


· Everyone - ongoing
1. relax. breathe. smile. Love hg.
2. Update me on your status regarding your tasks
3. Send me any ideas you have for potential funders

· John S.
1. look into customization options with John H.
2. once we are ready, set up more permanent issue tracking system and
whatever
data/parameters/customizations are necessary to start using it on our project
3. post this info on the shared web workspace (whether wiki or
otherwise) for
feedback (is this what Chad just did?)
4. organize for user test of first “build” (to start happening weekly in
1-3 weeks?)

· Chad and Rich
1. create a working database (with no real data) with php connection and
simple front end (basically just checking that the different bits can work
together)
2. Rich – start doing whatever needs to be done in order to get the
latest
version of PFAF that is under the CC-BY-NC-SA (2 weeks to complete)

· John Howe
1. Review changes in the configuration of Zope 2.7.2 for releasing it to
development access
2. Get zope deployment platform setup for Chad (sometime in the next 3-4
weeks) – I assume this has been done?

· Scott
1. Can we pay PI to take care of our bookkeeping? (I promise we’ll be
easier to work with…!)
2. Ask PCU about loan for server

· Lawrence
1. Create new and improved wiki, or other form of shared work webspace

· Stephanie
1. write up description user interface/experience, send to list
2. re-connect with Paula
3. make new list of possible funders, including suggestions from
Lawrence,
Rich, and others
4. send group Industrial Ecology references

...

QUESTIONS
1. Is permaculture.info going to be our shared web workspace *and* the hg
homepage?

...

PHASE 1 GOALS
Johns wrote:
"We don't even have a basic spec of any kind.
No need for volumes of yadda-yadda, but some fundamental statements as
to what the phase one system will DO are IMO necessary.
For example:

Permaculture.info web application, phase one, will:

* enable authorized users to create plant entities within the
permaculture.info database
* enable authorized users to input plant data into such plant entities,
in various forms (string, text field, numeric, date, list, image, etc.)
* enable authorized users to edit plant entity data in various forms (as
above)
* enable registered users to add discrete information to (annotate...?)
a plant entity (narrative comments, additions/suggestions, etc.)
* enable anonymous users to search for (query the database on) plants or
plant-related information using a variety of search fields including but
not limited to:
- name(s) of plant(s)
- botanical characteristics of plants
- functional characteristics of plants
- location, climate, etc.
- etc. etc. (I am just giving example of high-level spec - more
details needed here)
* implement initial plant entity creation, input, editing, annotation
and searching using css- and xhtml-validated web forms/web pages
accessible by all browsers/internet devices.
* and so on...

The above example implicitly creates three user classes already -
authorized, registered and anonymous - so that's part of a spec as well
- user type definitions and privileges.

The above is also extremely high-level - a bit (but not too much) more
detail would be a very good idea, such as inserting an eventual plant
entity attribute list, details of search options/implementation,
how/what of registered user annotation, and so on.

IMO there is no clear idea common to us all as to what "phase one" will
actually DO.
This is likely to lead to more annoyance and wasted time/money when Chad
and Rich implement what they think it ought to do and the rest of the
group finds out it's not necessarily what they think it ought to do.

Annoyance if we don't take the time to sort at least the basics out
first, so people know what to expect to a certain extent.
Wasted time/money in hashing out phase one basic specs *after* some
amount of implementation has already been done and then has to be
redone."

Chad added:
"My personal desire is to also provide an intelligent search that
queries all of aspects of the database from a single text box."

and

"This is pretty much exactly what I had in mind to start doing with one
one addition and the questions where noted. The addition being adding
relationship elements and allowing authorized users to create and edit
relationships. The relationships would possibly be displayed in some
text/html way in a browser but would much more likely be used by our
GBI package (TouchGraph/FreeMind/whatever)."





+++++++++++++++
Stephanie Gerson
sgerson@stanfordalumni.org
(c) 415.871.5683


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