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pcplantdb - Re: [pcplantdb] technical details, plan, re: synthesis

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  • From: Chad Knepp <pyg@galatea.org>
  • To: pcplantdb@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [pcplantdb] technical details, plan, re: synthesis
  • Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 21:29:27 -0500

Lawrence F. London, Jr. writes:
> Chad Knepp wrote:
>
> > o John H.: Can we start with your box, at least until things get
> > more settled?
>
> I would say that there _may_ be a better than average chance that
> ibiblio will be able to offer Zope to the project. I was encouraged
> by my conversation with Paul.
>
> He asked that someone from our group email his staff
> (help@ibiblio.org) with the Zope request and how much disk storage
> we will need. I would urge whoever is going to do this to follow up
> now rather than later.
> John Howe wrote:
> --------------
> > If we do end up using your server, we could write that into the
> next grant. If it is decided to use my server for the time being,
> I currently see it as an environment towards the enventual
> succession to ibiblio. Systemically, I see use of my server as
> "proving ground" to system requirments @ ibiblio
> eventually. johncompanies.com is also Open Source friendly, and I
> get reduced rates when hosting open source projects.
>
> I do see the project eventually residing at ibiblio. I think in the
> interim prototype phases, I have available hosting resources that
> can address the development effort. And funding could be pursued to
> acquire the necessary dedicated server resources @ ibiblio in the
> next grant phases.
> --------------
> > John H. - as your time permits, would you take this on?
> > You have afaik by far the most hands-on experience of any of us for
> > informing the ibiblio folks what we/they need in terms of hosting
> > resources and config for zope.
>
> Can do, should have something in place by the end of next week. My
> thinking is tracking the development for a while, we can procure
> some metrics ( cpu, memory, bandwidth, diskspace ) of what the
> application will require as it scales.
> <><>
>
> So, has John H. contacted them or if not could he do so soon or
> have Chad or John S. do this?

Hey John or John are you on this? If not I'll talk to them. I think
for numbers we could say something like disk use starting at 100 Megs
and hoping to grow to 1 Gig and bandwidth starting at 1-5 Gigs/month
and hoping to grow to 10-20 Gigs/month. No idea about CPU usage but I
don't think it will be that significant. These are really wild
guesses until we have something developed

> If you will find out once and for all whether you will have Zope on
> ibiblio you can then select your development platform and move on
> with work. It sounds like the only and best hosting choice is
> ibiblio. If Zope isn't going to be possible then use Eden or MySQL;
> the advantage of the latter is that we might be able to begin
> accumulating resources in HG and have something to show the public,
> all of which would help get more funding from grant sources.
>
> > Plan realated stuff:
> >
> > So nobody really responded to my emails regarding the fact that 1) I
> > need additional time to learn Zope and 2) I really only can commit to
> > 30 hours a week. This definitely puts a skew on the Project Plan, and
> > I'd like some feedback. According to the plan I am scheduled to
>
> That is definitely Stephanie's department.
>
> > Zope cons:
> > o Big learning curve.
> > o Unknown performance (speed).
> >
> > Zope pros:
> > o Lots of built in tools.
> > o Supports OO data model.
>
> I'd say it would be a good idea to determine if it is really going
> to work for you before asking ibiblio to install it for HG.
>
> > Eden cons:
> > o No built in tools except for the current engine.
> > o Table based data model.
> >
> > Eden pros:
> > o Known high performance.
> > o Quick start w/existing code.
>
> It's up to the programmers but I vote for getting going sooner with
> Eden or MySQL; you would have Richard onboard with greater ease
> with this option.
>
> > My take and I think John^2's is that Zope is the better choice. It
> > will probably take more time to get going with it, but with all the
> > built in tools and packages available it will probably save time in
> > the long run. Although I don't know how it will perform I'm pretty
> > confident that we can optimize performance bottlenecks as we go along.
> > We can in fact use MySQL (or another RDBMS) as the storage backend to
> > ZODB if FileStorage isn't fast enough or becomes unscaleable.
>
> This sounds great but please contact ibiblio about ZOPE rsn.
>
> > Something I hope you consider putting in this post is emphasizing the
> > commitment the group (or parts of the group) has to the long term
> > vision of creating an all encompassing knowledge base of permaculture
> > information... and that this knowledge will have connecting
> > information about how the elements of this knowledge relate to each
> > other. Something about how it's going to be more than plants anyway.
>
> If it is done on ibiblio I can be counted on to help out in a
> variety of ways for the long haul. I plan to focus more of my
> attention on HG than on any other web projects I work on, now or
> later.

I have a high degree of confidence that ibiblio will be able to
provide what we need regarding a zope platform, even if it isn't right
away. We also have the expertise between us to do it ourselves or
help them do it for us. Zope really is common/popular enough to be
available almost everywhere. I am a little surprised that they don't
have an install there already, but it's no big deal. Anyway, I don't
think that the fact that ibiblio doesn't already have Zope should be a
big factor in deciding whether to go the Zope route or the Eden/MySQL
route.

--
Chad Knepp
python -c 'import base64;print base64.decodestring("cHlnQGdhbGF0ZWEub3Jn")'




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