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  • From: haighal@aol.com
  • To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [NAFEX] nafex Digest, Vol 57, Issue 53
  • Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 08:13:02 -0400

Since WW II at least, the U.S. has been the best fed but worst food leader- I mean we brought the world Wonder Bread and T.V. Dinners.  Of course our most popular apple would be Red Delicious, what better apple to clear out the remaining bits of the McDonalds burger from the palate.  Like most of our foods R. D. is a relatively cheap to produce and ship comodity that leaves the consumer with more money to buy other things.  Our food may taste bad but we spend less of our income on it than the citizens of any other industrialized country.  It serves our economy well.
 
Old timers can wax poetic about the stripier strains of R. D. but I manage lots of very old Red Delicous trees of poor coloring strains. I bit into a couple of apples from one of these yesterday, and spit them out after finding them to be their usual bland insipid selves.  The only improvment I can discern over newer strains is the skin is finer so you don't get that woody affect.  

After testing that uninspiring variety I made my way to a century old Tompkins King on the same site and actually almost finished an excellent apple from that giant matri-patriarch (about the 20th variety sampled that day).  This tree had already been dropping apples for a month and was still loaded with ripening apples- it'd be a nightmare for a commercial grower.   It would require at least 5 pickings to harvest good apples.  The size of the apples ranged wildly as well-this wouldn't do at all for a commercial apple today, labor is much to expensive.

Now many Americans are rich enough to afford all the gadgets and gizmos deemed necessary to make modern life tolerable and still have enough left over to afford to pay a bit extra for food that actually tastes good.  Many of the newer apples are more expensive to produce than good old Red Delicious and people are paying more for them, so maybe there is hope for us fruit snobs.

Alan Haigh, The Home Orchard Company, Carmel, NY

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Today's Topics:

   1. Red Delicious (TIM INMAN)
   2. Re: Red Delicious (Mark & Helen Angermayer)
   3. Re: Red Delicious (Michael Nave)
   4. Re: Red Delicious (Douglas Woodard)
   5. Re: Red Delicious (Spidra Webster)
   6. Re: Red Delicious (Lee Reich)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 17:52:17 -0500
From: "TIM INMAN" <TIM@HISTORICINTERIORS.COM>
Subject: [NAFEX] Red Delicious
To: <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <002501c81110$5ec50be0$7801a8c0@TIMSONY>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Lon is right:  The original red delicious, the Iowa Hawkeye Delicious, is a 
superior apple in all regards.  Unfortunately, it is a great example of what 
mass production and quantity over quality can do to a good thing.  Hawkeye is 
very prone to sporting, thus over the years we've come so far away from the 
original it is almost unrecognizable.  The Red Delicious in stores today are 
just junk. 

There is a long and very interesting story behind the Hawkeye.  Stark, who 
bought the rights to the original Hawkeye and renamed it Red Delicious, now 
sells what they call Heritage Red Delicious.  I believe they are derived from 
Dwayne Manning in Woodbine, Iowa.  He has a Hawkeye surrounded by barbed wire 
and security fences and he should be given credit for preserving the original 
Hawkeye Red Delicious.  

Commercial orchards must make a profit, but the old saying comes to my mind, 
"Penny wise, pound foolish."  I think they've ruined Red Delicious for most 
people.

Just My Opinion!

Tim Inman
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 22:22:58 -0500
From: "Mark & Helen Angermayer" <hangermayer@isp.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Red Delicious
To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <008e01c81136$2f834f60$619cf404@computer5>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="iso-8859-1"

Amanda wrote:

"Not in Washington State. Both Van Well and C&O's various Red Delicious
sports are sold out for 2008 delivery already."

Hi Amanda,

I'm not sure "sold out" really denotes sold out.  What I mean is I've
contacted nurseries very early, before ordering season even starts, and been
told they were sold out of various cultivars.  Just this year, I contacted C
& O nursery in August (early August I think) and they were sold out of
several trees (for spring 2008).  These were trees that can be budded and
grown into whips in one season.  Maybe someone in the nursery business can
correct me, but this has happened often enough I'm thinking some nurseries
don't offer all their trees every year, and rather than saying the variety
is not available for the given year, they simply say "sold out."  After all,
it makes their trees sound like they're in big demand.

Mark
KS



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 22:13:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Nave <jmichaelnave@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Red Delicious
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <459365.23105.qm@web50912.mail.re2.yahoo.com">459365.23105.qm@web50912.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I hope future generations never know the taste of Red
"Delicious" (and what a fraudulent name that was). It
is almost single handedly responsible for the decline
in apple consumption in the latter half of the 20th
century. No one ever ate a red delicious apple and
said "yum, I need to eat more apples." It's the worst
tasting apple I have ever experienced. It's not a
plain old sugary apple. It's a plain old tasteless
apple.


--- Mark & Helen Angermayer <hangermayer@isp.com>
wrote:

> The other day Red Delicious apples were selling for
> 49 cents/lb at the
> grocers.  Nobody is making money at that price.  I
> wonder if it won't be
> long before they disappear from the stores
> altogether.  It seems apparent
> Red Delicious is headed for back-yard orchard
> production only, but I'm
> wondering will eventually disappear completely? 
> Seems a strange sad thought
> that future generations may never know the taste of
> a Red Delicious, even
> though it's not that great (However, the current out
> of favor preference may
> in part be due to oversaturation.  I wonder after
> we've had our fill of
> Fujis, Galas, Honeycrisps, if we will yearn for a
> plain old sugary apple).
> Just a thought.
> 
> Mark
> KS
> 
> 
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 01:49:35 -0400
From: Douglas Woodard <dwoodard@becon.org>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Red Delicious
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <4716F3EF.8090602@becon.org">4716F3EF.8090602@becon.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Years ago I bought some Red Delicious in St. Catharines' farmers' market 
from a small grower, probably shortly after picking, which were striped 
and not very brightly coloured. I'd guess they were the original or 
close to it. The flesh was was hard, crisp and very sweet although 
somewhat bland. They may have been picked at a non-optimal time or given 
too much nitrogen, or maybe the weather wasn't sunny or hot enough to 
bring out their best. It did originate in the midwest after all.

I've eaten Red Prince Delicious grown in Prince Edward County which were 
pleasantly flavoured and better than other red sports although nothing 
special.

Doug Woodard
St. Catharines, Ontario
Niagara Peninsula


Michael Nave wrote:
> I hope future generations never know the taste of Red
> "Delicious" (and what a fraudulent name that was). It
> is almost single handedly responsible for the decline
> in apple consumption in the latter half of the 20th
> century. No one ever ate a red delicious apple and
> said "yum, I need to eat more apples." It's the worst
> tasting apple I have ever experienced. It's not a
> plain old sugary apple. It's a plain old tasteless
> apple.
>   


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 01:38:14 -0700
From: Spidra Webster <spidra@speakeasy.net>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Red Delicious
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <CCAD534E-3BEE-4C6A-9B6C-036FB961103A@speakeasy.net">CCAD534E-3BEE-4C6A-9B6C-036FB961103A@speakeasy.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed


On Oct 17, 2007, at 10:13 PM, Michael Nave wrote:

> I hope future generations never know the taste of Red
> "Delicious" (and what a fraudulent name that was). It
> is almost single handedly responsible for the decline
> in apple consumption in the latter half of the 20th
> century. No one ever ate a red delicious apple and
> said "yum, I need to eat more apples." It's the worst
> tasting apple I have ever experienced. It's not a
> plain old sugary apple. It's a plain old tasteless
> apple.

Yup.  I didn't know it at the time, but it was Red Delicious that was  
responsible for me deciding "I don't like red apples".  I liked green  
apples (which, it turned out, were Pippins and then later Granny  
Smiths). But I never tasted a red apple I liked.  Since they were  
just called apples in the supermarket and not really associated with  
cultivar names, I didn't know that there were different cultivars  
that could taste very different.  It's only in the last couple years  
that I've rediscovered apples.  First, by tracking down the Newtown  
Pippins of my youth and secondly by being introduced to red or  
reddish apples that taste good.  What a surprise!

There's an orchard near here in El Sobrante that was reclaimed from  
brambles.  The new owners rehabilitated it and tracked down the  
cultivar types. It turns out the man who planted it in the '60s or so  
bought his trees from Starck Bros.  He planted Gravensteins and  
Pippins, which I find to be delicious, but I was surprised that the  
non-commercial orchard also had such wastes of space as Red  
Delicious.  I figured I had better try one to see if being grown  
organically and tree-ripening made a difference.  Although it made a  
difference, the difference was slight.  You still have an apple that  
was bred for looks and the ability to ship well.  Taste was clearly  
secondary.

Thankfully, diving into the world of home orchards, local food and  
heirloom varieties has taught me that it wasn't the color of the  
apple that made it taste bad.  Not all red apples are bad.  But Red  
Delicious is a contradiction in terms.

Megan Lynch

Berkeley, CA


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 06:56:31 -0400
From: Lee Reich <garden@leereich.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Red Delicious
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <B39829E7-B95C-485E-AD6A-AE44EC5B3D7F@leereich.com">B39829E7-B95C-485E-AD6A-AE44EC5B3D7F@leereich.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I grow the original Red Delicious. It is relatively pale red with a  
lot of yellow background and has a rich, honey-like sweetness. Also  
quite juicy. I rate it as a very good apple but not one that compares  
with my favorites, such as Jonagold and Macoun, at their best.

Lee Reich, PhD
http://leereich.com/

Books by Lee Reich:
The Pruning Book
Weedless Gardening
Uncommon Fruits for Every Garden
A Northeast Gardener's Year


On Oct 18, 2007, at 1:49 AM, Douglas Woodard wrote:

> Years ago I bought some Red Delicious in St. Catharines' farmers'  
> market
> from a small grower, probably shortly after picking, which were  
> striped
> and not very brightly coloured. I'd guess they were the original or
> close to it. The flesh was was hard, crisp and very sweet although
> somewhat bland. They may have been picked at a non-optimal time or  
> given
> too much nitrogen, or maybe the weather wasn't sunny or hot enough to
> bring out their best. It did originate in the midwest after all.
>
> I've eaten Red Prince Delicious grown in Prince Edward County which  
> were
> pleasantly flavoured and better than other red sports although nothing
> special.
>
> Doug Woodard
> St. Catharines, Ontario
> Niagara Peninsula
>
>
> Michael Nave wrote:
>> I hope future generations never know the taste of Red
>> "Delicious" (and what a fraudulent name that was). It
>> is almost single handedly responsible for the decline
>> in apple consumption in the latter half of the 20th
>> century. No one ever ate a red delicious apple and
>> said "yum, I need to eat more apples." It's the worst
>> tasting apple I have ever experienced. It's not a
>> plain old sugary apple. It's a plain old tasteless
>> apple.
>>
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> nafex mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
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