North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

["Dennis Norton" <dmnorton@royaloakfarmorchard.com>]

Thought someone might find 
http://mtvernon.wsu.edu/frt_hort/ciderapples.htm#list useful!

Dennis Norton
Royal Oak Farm Orchard
http://www.royaloakfarmorchard.com
http://www.theorchardkeeper.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "loneroc" <loneroc@mwt.net>
To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] cider apples.


> Hi Tanis,
>
> No is the simple answer to your question, if you are referring to a cider
> made with only one apple.  One wants a balance of acid, sweet (for the
> alcohol) and tannins among other things.  Bud 118 is just a source of 
> tannin
> to blend with a mix of other apples that allows one to prevent the acid
> levels from getting too high in the finished product.  It is not as high 
> in
> sugar as some of the 'bittersweet' European cider apples, which is a
> drawback, but at least it give some tannins without having to increase 
> acid
> to objectionable levels as one can easily do when using crabs as the 
> source
> of tannins. (Apples are not the only potential source of tannins--some
> Eastern European fermented beverages used various species of Sorbus to be
> blended with apple juice). Apples which make good single variety cider in 
> a
> European style are usually in the 'bittersharp' category.  None of the
> European cultivars of either the b-sweet or b-sharp categories are
> completely hardy in zone 3 or perhaps even zone 4 conditions to my 
> knowledge
> though I have hopes for a couple I'm testing.  Several New England
> orchardists are testing many European cultivars but without the addition 
> of
> Russian or crabapple genes I'd be surprised if any will take prolonged 
> super
> cold temperatures.
>
> There are some 'American' cider apples that make superior single variety
> ciders,'Golden Russet' comes to mind.  (One of) the first American apple
> selection, 'Roxbury Russet' (not hardy in zone 4 by the way) originated as 
> a
> cider apple.  Indeed, the vaaaaaaaaaast majority of apples cultivated in 
> the
> US were used to make cider up to the mid 19th century and beyond.
> Prohibition rang in the death knell for cider as the pre-eminent  American
> beverage, even though farmhouse New England cider was exempted from some 
> of
> the restrictions place on most other alcoholic beverages.  Homemade
> sacramental wine was also off the hit-list.
>
> While European cider makers used select apple cultivars for a source of
> juice generally, the Yankees generally used seedling apples for the same.
> Johnny Appleseed was not planting dessert apples.  If my memory serves, he
> was a member of some oddball religious group that advocated more healthful
> lifestyles (in their own minds) generally and use of cider rather than
> distilled beverages in particular.  Apple seedlings typically have higher
> levels of acid and tannins than dessert cultivars and wildlings are often
> recommended for home cidermakers today.  The big yellow apple (did it have 
> a
> rose blush, too?) find of yours that I tasted has higher tannin levels 
> than
> most dessert apples--probably at similar levels to 'Golden Russet' and 
> might
> make a fine cider variety.
>
> Steve H. Lone Rock, WI USDA zone 3-4
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "tanis cuff" <tanistanis@hotmail.com>
> To: <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 11:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] photograph of the rootstock apple Bud-118
> heavywithfruit.
>
>
> > So, a sweet apple w/ tannins but not much tart is desireable for
> cider-apple
> > growers?
> >
> >
> > ----Original Message Follows----
> > From: "loneroc" <>
> > To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <>
> > Subject: Re: [NAFEX] photograph of the rootstock apple Bud-118 heavy
> > withfruit.
> > Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 05:33:43 -0600
> >
> > Hi Charlie,
> >
> > Bud 118 has lovely pink flowers and a columnar habit (until the weight of
> > the fruit drags the branches down).  Bud 118 has sweet fruit with a
> > relatively low acid levels and a nice dose of soft tannins--something 
> > that
> > hard cider makers value for imparting depth (mouthfeel) to the cider. 
> > It's
> > nothing you'd want to eat for dessert.  Most European cider apples
> > (generally so tannic as to be inedible) are not reliably hardy in zones
> 3-4,
> > so the usual source of tannin for Northerners has been crabs of various
> > sorts.  These also tend to be very high in acid and have not allowed 
> > cider
> > makers to control levels of acid and tannin independently....
> >
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