North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

["oliver smith callis" <oliversmithcallis@gmail.com>]

I would just like to add that although some livestock ca adversely affect an orchard or garden, others can be quite compatible. Geese and ducks, for example, are excellent orchard weeders & fertilizers, and a chicken tractor can work wonders in any backyard garden. I use chickens and ducks in my back garden in a chicken tractor, 
http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~nfantasi/Chicken%20Tractors.htm
to till soil for a garden bed rather than rent a rototiller plus I get eggs in return. However it is true that with some animals, care has to be taken to fence out younger trees and plants, but integrated systems can be beneficial. 

Search for silvopasture on this page:  http://www.newfarm.org/international/features/0604/australia/index.shtml
   "In a silvopasture system the cattle, trees, and pasture exist 
                    in a symbiotic relationship. The trees provide shade for the 
                    cattle, reducing heat stress, compaction, and over fertilizing. 
                    In this subtropical climate, Lindegger believes that the pasture 
                    also grows better in partial shade...this system makes optimum use of the 
                  land."

With goats one option is to plant a hedgerow to contain them with wire netting on the side the goats are contained in so that they can trim the hedge but not damage the plants. Another way of protecting trees is to tether the goats to a pole so that they can't get to the trees, and continuously move the pole so that the goat can get fresh browse. Here is an example of one hedgerow-goat system
http://www.ibiblio.org/permaculture-online/profclogher03.html
http://www.ibiblio.org/permaculture-online/profclogher03.html

related quotes:

"As far as the living fences for the goats idea, Chris, well, I tried
that with a bunch of things that will grow from cutting. Coral trees,
african tulip and samea samans, and the goats debarked every post! So
of course none of them grew! I think the key is to have a "double
fence", with some kind of barrier between the hedge that is food for
the goats and the goats! Perhaps species can be chosen that have a
drooping foliage so that the goats can browse on what hangs down...
"

"Goat Person:

Having been confused, bemused, abused, and misused by goats any number of
times in a long career on the farm, I shall venture the following:

Goats are smarter than we are...they are more determined and prideful
than we are, and they will get their way...

In the present instance, your goats are psychically attuned to your
distress about the young nut trees and they are browsing upon them in
order to hurt you for, you write:

<< I would like to put these animals to work>>  HA!  Goats cannot abide
this kind of thinking.    

If you could genuinely manage to transfer your affections to a prickly
pear cactus planting on the other side of a 40 foot high chain link fence
and an active lava flow, your goats would go eat those and leave your
trees alone.

Woody


On Sun, 28 Sep 1997 04:31:05 -0700 "Permaculture West"
<
permawest@olywa.net> writes:
>	The farm I am caretaking has three rascally goats that are 
>never content
>with what they are being fed or where they are being ranged 
>(apparently
>typical for goats).  I would like to put these animals to work as 
>pasture
>management agents around my newly planted nut trees.  I have tried a 
>number
>of caging devices to protect my trees but the goats have defied all my
>defenses and continue to ravage the young trees. This happens despite 
>the
>fact that they have abundant woody browse within their range.  Has 
>anyone
>stumbled across a clever way to protect their saplings from rampaging
>goats?  Is there such a thing as a goat proof cage for trees?  I get 
>the
>feeling the common answer will be, "don't range your goats with your 
>young
>trees."  However, unfortunately the two are already committed to 
>eachother
>due to lack of space. "

I have been contemplating designing a goat forage system for my backyard and it seems  that there
must be a way to incorporate the benefits these animals bring and to utilize their mischeviousness and intelligence.

some plants naturally browsed by goats are (from : "Permaculture Plants" by Jeff Nugent & Julia Boniface) 

Nitrogen fixers-
Acacia cyclops (coastal wattle) - foliage
Alnus glutinosa (common or black alder)
 - foliage
Gleditsia triacanthos (Honey Locust) - pods

Others-
Simmondsia californica (Jojoba) - foliage         
Ziziphus mauritiana (Indian jujube) - foliage
Ziziphus spina - christi (Christ thorn jujube) - fruit

Oliver