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nafex - Re: [NAFEX] American persimmon on D. lotus rootstock & KSD

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  • From: "Dr. Chiranjit Parmar" <parmarch@sancharnet.in>
  • To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [NAFEX] American persimmon on D. lotus rootstock & KSD
  • Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:30:12 +0530

Let me put my two cents. In fact, I tried to join this topic when it was started. But my mails did not reach the list due to some problem.

D. lotus is called AMLOOK here in my part of India. It being used as a rootstock for D. kaki for the past 6-7 decades and does very well.

I have some pioctures of D. lotus fruits and can e-mail if anyone is interested.

Very truly yours,

Dr.Chiranjit Parmar
Horticultural Consultant of Lesser Known Indian Fruits
www.lesserknownindianplants.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacquelyn Kuehn" <jakuehn@verizon.net>
To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 6:53 AM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] American persimmon on D. lotus rootstock & KSD


Alan, may I use your comments from this and earlier persimmon postings
in an upcoming Pomona?

Thanks.

Jackie Kuehn
editor-in-chief, Pomona

On Dec 8, 2005, at 4:01 PM, yarry lo wrote:

Jerry,

Apologies for the lack of clarity in my previous post. My question
refers to
D. lotus as a rootstock for D. virginiana, not for D. kaki. Also my
term
"persimmon wilt" refers not to KSD but to the fungal disease caused by
Cephalosporium diospoyri, which had wiped out many of the native
stands of
persimmon in the southern states in the middle of the last century.
I have heard of one method of cloning D. virginiana rootstock which
involves
cutting one year old seedllings to the ground and then covering several
inches at the base of the resulting sprouts with sawdust , which
presumably
would serve as medium for new roots. Once these rooted they could be
cut
from the main plant and serve as rootstocks. My attempts at this
method have
so far failed to produce any roots on the sprouts.

Alan


From: Jwlehman@aol.com
Reply-To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] American persimmon on D. lotus rootstock & KSD
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In a message dated 12/7/2005 5:34:24 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
yarrylo@hotmail.com writes:


Has anyone tried or considered D. lotus as an alternative to D.
virginiana
as a rootstock for American persimmon?
I understand that D. lotus is less cold hardy than D.V. but still
supposedly
hardy to zone 5, so would its use still present a hardiness problem
in
zones

6 and higher?
Also noting some growers' observations of the significant
variability of
persimmon variety traits on different individual D.V. rootstocks,
might
D.
lotus rootstock allow a more consistent expression of the graft (as
it
apparently
does for D. kaki for which it is the preferred rootstock in some
locations),
thereby possibly improving cultivar evaluations?
And is it reasonable to expect a somewhat dwarfed or shrubier plant
to
grow
on lotus stock and would these qualities be desirable for harvesting
considerations?
Might also the naturally resistant D. lotus provide some protection
from
persimmon wilt?
But back to basics, will this graft even take?!
Thanks
Alan Stein

Hello Alan,

Yes, there is significant variability in D. virginiana that causes
problems
comparing
clones in test blocks. I'd also believe this would hold true for D.
lotus
seedlings. And because of having one species on another, the over all
variability
may even be greater. Strictly guessing!

What we need is a method to clone Diospyros rootstocks and Purdue is
working
on that and have succeeded somewhat. We could than test on uniform
understocks. The system isn't perfected and hopefully lack of funds
will
not halt the
work. One plant propagator has said they would produce rootstocks if
invitro
propagation is perfected.

I have lotus growing here in Indiana and they freeze to the ground
every
year, except one in the past 8 years. I think maybe two are still
alive. If
D.
lotus were used as understock here, Zone 5b, I'd suggest the graft
would
need be
made low, below ground level. But then kaki would still suffer winter
damage
in zone 5 and even zone 6.

Yes, lotus is used as understock for kaki and recommended in the
South.
Lotus
is less tap rooted and have more laterals making it theoretically a
better
rootstock. I have no experience to speak from. But they are graft
compatible.
Some nurseries use lotus as an understock.

Have no idea if lotus would offer resistance for persimmon wilt also
called
KSD. Keep in mind this writer believes there could be more than one
cause
or
combination of causes for sudden death and shepherd hooking is a
symptom of
dying kaki from one or more causes.

Now if KSD is caused from Manganese poising as has been speculated,
then
lotus could be a preventative if the uptake of Manganese is less than
with
virginiana or kaki as I've seen reports that kaki on kaki can also
exhibit
KSD.

We know some varieties within a given species have more resistance to
certain
viruses. For example, at the USDA, Beltsville, where they test
incoming
plant
material for viruses one of the first steps is graft Prunus to virus
sensitive rootstocks. If the rootstock dies, the material is virus
infected. No need
to test further. If one of the causes of KSD is a virus then
virginiana
must be
tolerant of it. Would lotus impart resistance to grafted kaki? Have no
idea.
Virginiana certainly doesn't seem to and acts more like a carrier.
See
Lester
Davis input on the subject 12/02/05, subject title: Kaki sex.

There you have it, much verbiage, no conclusion.

Jerry


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