North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

[Jacquelyn Kuehn <jakuehn@verizon.net>]

Alan, may I use your comments from this and earlier persimmon postings  
in an upcoming Pomona?

Thanks.

Jackie Kuehn
editor-in-chief, Pomona

On Dec 8, 2005, at 4:01 PM, yarry lo wrote:

> Jerry,
>
> Apologies for the lack of clarity in my previous post. My question  
> refers to
> D. lotus as a rootstock for D. virginiana, not for D. kaki.  Also my  
> term
> "persimmon wilt" refers not to KSD but to the fungal disease caused by
> Cephalosporium diospoyri, which had wiped out many of the native  
> stands of
> persimmon in the southern states in the middle of the last century.
> I have heard of one method of cloning D. virginiana rootstock which  
> involves
> cutting one year old seedllings to the ground and then covering several
> inches at the base of the resulting sprouts with sawdust , which  
> presumably
> would serve as medium for new roots.  Once these rooted they could be   
> cut
> from the main plant and serve as rootstocks. My attempts at this  
> method have
> so far failed to produce any roots on the sprouts.
>
> Alan
>
>
> > From: Jwlehman@aol.com
> > Reply-To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> > To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subject: Re: [NAFEX] American persimmon on D. lotus rootstock & KSD
> > Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 10:10:39 EST
> > MIME-Version: 1.0
> > Received: from metalab.unc.edu ([152.2.210.112]) by
> > bay0-mc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211);  
> > Thu, 8
> > Dec 2005 07:11:13 -0800
> > Received: from malecky (unknown [152.2.210.119])by metalab.unc.edu
> > (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ACBE48563;Thu,  8 Dec 2005 10:10:48 -0500  
> > (EST)
> > Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1])by
> > lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C7454C005for
> > <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>; Thu,  8 Dec 2005 10:10:46 -0500 (EST)
> > Received: from Jwlehman@aol.comby imo-m20.mx.aol.com  
> > (mail_out_v38_r6.3.)
> > id 3.fe.212e600d (3948)for <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>; Thu, 8 Dec 2005
> > 10:10:41 -0500 (EST)
> > X-Message-Info: NDMZeIBu+sptjMHigxbUCZ7wYCL47i2nMyMdUKZctCs=
> > X-Original-To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Delivered-To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> > X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6036
> > X-Spam-Flag: NO
> > X-BeenThere: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> > X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6
> > Precedence: list
> > List-Id: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex.lists.ibiblio.org>
> > List-Unsubscribe:
> > <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex>,<mailto:nafex- 
> > request@lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/nafex>
> > List-Post: <mailto:nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> > List-Help: <mailto:sympa@lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
> > List-Subscribe:
> > <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex>,<mailto:nafex- 
> > request@lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
> > Errors-To: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Return-Path: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> > X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Dec 2005 15:11:16.0342 (UTC)
> > FILETIME=[A2A2F160:01C5FC09]
> >
> > In a message dated 12/7/2005 5:34:24 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> > yarrylo@hotmail.com writes:
> > > Has anyone tried or considered D. lotus as an alternative to D.
> > virginiana
> > > as a rootstock for American persimmon?
> > > I understand that D. lotus is less cold hardy than D.V. but still
> > supposedly
> > > hardy to zone 5, so would its use still present a hardiness problem  
> > > in
> > zones
> > > 6 and higher?
> > > Also noting some growers' observations of the significant  
> > > variability of
> > > persimmon variety traits on different individual D.V. rootstocks,  
> > > might
> > D.
> > > lotus rootstock allow a more consistent expression of the graft (as  
> > > it
> > > apparently
> > > does for D. kaki for which it is the preferred rootstock in some
> > locations),
> > > thereby possibly improving cultivar evaluations?
> > > And is it reasonable to expect a somewhat dwarfed or shrubier plant  
> > > to
> > grow
> > > on lotus stock and would these qualities be desirable for harvesting
> > > considerations?
> > > Might also the naturally resistant D. lotus provide some protection  
> > > from
> > > persimmon wilt?
> > > But back to basics, will this graft even take?!
> > > Thanks
> > > Alan Stein
> >
> > Hello Alan,
> >
> > Yes, there is significant variability in D. virginiana that causes  
> > problems
> > comparing
> > clones in test blocks. I'd also believe this would hold true for D.  
> > lotus
> > seedlings. And because of having one species on another, the over all
> > variability
> > may even be greater.  Strictly guessing!
> >
> > What we need is a method to clone Diospyros rootstocks and Purdue is
> > working
> > on that and have succeeded somewhat. We could than test on uniform
> > understocks. The system isn't perfected and hopefully lack of funds  
> > will
> > not halt the
> > work. One plant propagator has said they would produce rootstocks if
> > invitro
> > propagation is perfected.
> >
> > I have lotus growing here in Indiana and they freeze to the ground  
> > every
> > year, except one in the past 8 years. I think maybe two are still  
> > alive. If
> > D.
> > lotus were used as understock here, Zone 5b, I'd suggest the graft  
> > would
> > need be
> > made low, below ground level. But then kaki would still suffer winter
> > damage
> > in zone 5 and even zone 6.
> >
> > Yes, lotus is used as understock for kaki and recommended in the  
> > South.
> > Lotus
> > is less tap rooted and have more laterals making it theoretically a  
> > better
> > rootstock. I have no experience to speak from. But they are graft
> > compatible.
> > Some nurseries use lotus as an understock.
> >
> > Have no idea if lotus would offer resistance for persimmon wilt also  
> > called
> > KSD. Keep in mind this writer believes there could be more than one  
> > cause
> > or
> > combination of causes for sudden death and shepherd hooking is a  
> > symptom of
> > dying kaki from one or more causes.
> >
> > Now if KSD is caused from Manganese poising as has been speculated,  
> > then
> > lotus could be a preventative if the uptake of Manganese is less than  
> > with
> > virginiana or kaki as I've seen reports that kaki on kaki can also  
> > exhibit
> > KSD.
> >
> > We know some varieties within a given species have more resistance to
> > certain
> > viruses. For example, at the USDA, Beltsville, where they test  
> > incoming
> > plant
> > material for viruses one of the first steps is graft Prunus to virus
> > sensitive rootstocks. If the rootstock dies, the material is virus
> > infected. No need
> > to test further. If one of the causes of KSD is a virus then  
> > virginiana
> > must be
> > tolerant of it. Would lotus impart resistance to grafted kaki? Have no
> > idea.
> > Virginiana certainly doesn't seem to and acts more like a carrier.   
> > See
> > Lester
> > Davis input on the subject 12/02/05, subject title: Kaki sex.
> >
> > There you have it, much verbiage, no conclusion.
> >
> > Jerry
>
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > nafex mailing list
> > nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> >
> > Reproduction of list messages or archives is not allowed.
> > This includes distribution on other email lists or reproduction on web
> > sites.
> > Permission to reproduce is NEVER granted, so don't claim you have
> > permission!
> >
> > **YOU MUST BE SUBSCRIBED TO POST!**
> > Posts from email addresses that are not subscribed are discarded.
> > No exceptions.
> > ----
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe, go to the bottom of this page (also can  
> > be
> > used to change other email options):
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
> >
> > File attachments are NOT stripped by this list.
> > TAKE STEPS TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM COMPUTER VIRUSES!
> > Please do not send binary files.
> > Use plain text ONLY in emails!
> >
> > NAFEX web site:   http://www.nafex.org/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nafex mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>
> Reproduction of list messages or archives is not allowed.
> This includes distribution on other email lists or reproduction on web  
> sites.
> Permission to reproduce is NEVER granted, so don't claim you have  
> permission!
>
> **YOU MUST BE SUBSCRIBED TO POST!**
> Posts from email addresses that are not subscribed are discarded.
> No exceptions.
> ----
> To subscribe or unsubscribe, go to the bottom of this page (also can  
> be used to change other email options):
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>
> File attachments are NOT stripped by this list.
> TAKE STEPS TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM COMPUTER VIRUSES!
> Please do not send binary files.
> Use plain text ONLY in emails!
>
> NAFEX web site:   http://www.nafex.org/