North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

["Stephen Sadler" <Docshiva@Docshiva.org>]

I do try, as a contributor to this list, to help people differentiate
between organic products that work, e.g. Neem oil, and those that don't,
e.g. snake oil.

One shouldn't assume that natural is better, nor should one assume that
natural/organic is ineffective.  Rather, look at the efficacy, cost
efficiency, and environmental effects of the individual products.

There are many products around that simply don't do what they claim, or have
never been tested at all for their intended actions.  Products in that
latter category may or may not work, but why waste money on something
unproven?  Later research may show them effective, but in the mean time,
they would sure not be my first line of defense.  

In the letter I think may have inspired Don, I think clove, thyme, and
orange oils were mentioned.  I've discussed how and why orange oil works.
Clove oil is very active biologically - it can have an effect on many
organisms.  Humans use it to numb mouth sores and decaying teeth.  In high
concentrations it does break down plant cell walls, and can act as an
herbicide.  Thyme oil is, in the lab, broadly antifungal; but I have found,
as yet, no evidence that it is helpful in farming, orcharding, or gardening.
I await the studies.  BTW, there are surely studies out there, which address
efficacy of organic methods, that I just haven't found.  Please bring
relevant ones to my attention.  I don't care whether they support what I've
posted or not - I just like to see the research.

As for rubber degrading when exposed to Neem oil - I don't think it's the
Neem.  I suspect there was some orange oil in the mix, and rubber doesn't
care for orange oil.  A sprayer might do okay with an insecticidal
soap/orange oil blend, as the orange oil will want to stay with the soap
rather than linger on the rubber parts, but still - clean afterward whenever
you spray with something containing any solvent, including orange.  If you
want to condition the rubber parts, use a Q-tip to apply some glycerine.  

Stephen Sadler, Ph.D.
USDA 9, AHS heat zone 8, 
Sacramento CA - Mediterranean climate

-----Original Message-----
From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of kieran or donna
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 6:13 AM
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [NAFEX] Neem and Surround

It's too late for me this year, but thank you all for your discussion of
Neem as repellent, and esp the combination.  I was just too discouraged
after last year's rain constantly washing off the Surround, and the very few
fruit that actually escaped the curculios.  Next year, I will be prepared.
What about the complaint that Neem eats up rubber parts in sprayers?  Only
one person complained a year or two back, no one else seems to mention it.
Do I have to be sure to wash my sprayer out well after using Neem?
    And my thanks to Don Yellman for reminding us all about Oil of Snake.  I
have used many and various products containing this wonder ingredient, and
always noted that it didn't work as well after the first few doses. Now I
tend to be a bit more cautious in my purchases.    Donna