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  • From: list@ginda.us
  • To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Grow fruit higher than deer can reach?
  • Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 21:04:22 -0500

Charlie, My husband's uncle has a "deer-pruned" orchard. He planted seedling apples years ago. They are now very large trees, with neat, flat bottoms. The bottoms are at about head-height - I can't walk comfortably beneath the trees and I am only 5'6". It is cooler in the shade, but little biting bugs gather there, so I usually don't hang out under the apple trees unless I am picking apples or cutting sticks to toast marshmallows. (Not enough breeze - the shade from the oaks and birches is more comfortable and less buggy.)

On the other hand, the deer do a fine job of cleaning up drops - we never see any in the morning. These trees ripen their fruit over a long period, so the deer can easily keep up. I suppose a modern cultivar that ripened all at once might challenge them a bit.

I'm sure an M111 will grow tall enough to fruit above deer-height. He has a couple of M7 and M109 trees, and while he gripes that they ought to grow to the ground, and that the deer have robbed him of half their potential, they produce fruit above the deer browsing mark. Because they are smaller trees, they are not too hard to pick. I think the deer do most of the pruning.

I have planted M111 in the hope of getting a decent crop above the deer's reach. My deer pressure is much lighter than his.

Ginda Fisher
eastern MA
uncle in Catskills, NY

On Monday, March 24, 2003, at 04:31 PM, charles paradise wrote:

Bruce,
I also understood that having animals come in and pick up the apple drops would reduce somewhat
the pressure from apple maggot etc.
But being able to walk underneath it - that I think is a huge advantage. One of the most
beautiful orchards I ever visited was in Pennsylvania, chestnut, it was like that. 95 degrees
and we were comfortable underneath the trees.
Charlie Paradise
zone 5/massachusetts

Bruce Hansen wrote:

Charlie:

If you contact me later, I will get you a picture when the leaves are out.
The original orchard was grafted on EMLA 7 rootstock. The deer trim is at
about the four foot level. I like it there because I am able to clean out
under the trees with less difficulty. I now only use MM 111 which is even
better for my purposes. The umbrella training idea could go far. I have many
deer that live on the farm. I suppose that I could rent out a few for
'training'. Better yet, like a bee keeper, I could stake the deer near the
trees to be groomed/pruned.

Bruce z5 MI

-----Original Message-----
From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of charles paradise
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 2:57 PM
To: North American Fruit Explorers
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Grow fruit higher than deer can reach?

Bruce, [and others who may comment],
Do you use a seedling for your apple rootstocks to get that acacia look?
Would you say you are using umbrella training?
Is M111 a large enough tree roostock to support your type training, or would
only a seedling
rootstock yield the desired height?
Are your trees in Michigan rather unique for your area? I would doubt you
know any other
growers who train their trees in such a way. Would love a link to a
picture.

Charlie Paradise
zone 5/Massachusetts

Bruce Hansen wrote:

Charlie:

Piece of cake. I have about 400 trees and they all have that acacia look.
It
is really kind of nice. I use tree tubes for my young stock. Now the only
problem I have with deer are the city folk who hunt.

Bruce Z5 MI

-----Original Message-----
From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Charles Paradise
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 1:19 PM
To: North American Fruit Explorers
Subject: [NAFEX] Grow fruit higher than deer can reach?

Suppose I conceded that in a particular orchard deer would occasionally
get in and browse my proposed planting of apple and pear trees.

You may have seen pictures of trees grown on the African savanna, where
the tree is leafless up to about eight feet high, then the foliage
grows with the bottom branches looking like they are growing flat on a
tabletop, because the foraging animals below have gnawed everything
they could reach up to. So the first 8 feet of the growing tree has
been conceded to the wild animals in Africa.

For an example of how this browsed tree looks in Africa, see:
http://www.blueplanetbiomes.org/acacia_tortillis.htm

I'm asking for opinions about the practicality of growing apples and
pears on standard seedling rootstocks, and trimming so the first
branches occur several feet off the ground - not easy, I know, for
pruning and harvesting - but as a proposed way of avoiding the
necessity of repelling deer.

So, what's your opinion? Possible? Practical or impractical?

Charlie Paradise
zone 5/Massachusetts

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