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  • From: lee sharp <sharplr@yahoo.com>
  • To: mrxtexas@lycos.com, North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Champanel grape
  • Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 08:11:19 -0800 (PST)

Hi Philip
One of our older fruit growing friends/members has
been growing champanel grapes at Hattiesburg,Ms. for
over 25 years to my knowledge. He grows them primarily
to make wine. Every year he has a bumper crop and
never any disease problems with the vines. I got a
plant about 10 years ago to grow at my place in Ocean
Springs,Ms. I wanted it for fresh fruit but it was so
tart I gave my plant to a person in the Biloxi,Ms.
area that wanted it to use the juice for wine. Our
area of the Gulfcoast is very similar to where you
are.
I don't think you will have any problem growing and
producing champanel in your area. The champanel can be
trained and pruned very similar to muscadines instead
of grapes and this is probably because it is such a
vigorous grower.
Recently I started some citrus and last spring the
(CLM) leaf minors were bad. I purchased a fertilome
product with the active ingredient "Spinosad". When
should I apply the first spray of this product? Also I
read that Ultra Fine Oil will keep CLM from laying
eggs on citrus. How often should this be sprayed?
You can contact me direct at this Email:
sharplr@yahoo.com
Regards,
Lee Sharp


--- philip sauber <mrxtexas@lycos.com> wrote:
>
> What are peoples experience with champanel grape?
> I've heard it is sour and only good for jelly from
> someone who pulled their vines up to "an excellent
> grape to eat if allowed to fully ripen(about 2 weeks
> after it turns blue") from Womack nursery where I
> bought it. I picked champanel because it is reputed
> not to require spraying for black rot vs black
> spanish and blanc du bois that do (George Ray
> McEachern "Growing Fruits, Berries, and Nuts in the
> South".)
>
> Is it sweet enough for juice and fresh eating?
>
> Does it require spraying?
>
> I live near Houston, TX. I also have several
> muscadines I am also growing. I an also trying the
> mortenson cold hardy vinafera that is supposedly
> resistant to pierce's disease.
>
>
>
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Subject: Re: [NAFEX] black locust
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> From: "Dylan Ford" <dford@suffolk.lib.ny.us>

> I heard long ago that honeybees and earthworms are alien to
> North America, imported by European colonists, and as such are harmful
> elements in our ecosystems, but I have never really understood the case
> against them. Can you (or other Nafexers) spell out the harm they do,
> especially the earthworms?
> It's a little more obvious with the honeybees in terms of
> competition for resources,
The book by Gary Nabhan "The Forgotten Pollenators" is a good beginning look
at bees of all sorts.
Diversity is a reason I am a Mason bee ally who does not use uniform drilled
holes or straws; I use cut bamboo (oh oh! ANOTHER invasive exotic!) of
different sizes and get an assortment of residents.

> Now slugs, on the other hand...
Well, yes, the faunal totem of the Maritime Northwest! With our native slugs
being hounded out of their habitat and into the noonday sun by the voracious
European Limax gigas- horrible, horrible.

Ginda sez:
> Earthworms eat leaf duff, and turn it into a finer soil with very
> different moisture-retaining characteristics. People have measured the
> depth of duff before and after earthworms reach a site, and the
> difference is significant. There are a number of native plants that
> prefer to grow in deep duff - mostly forest understory shrubs and
> wildflowers, which may be endangered by the spread of earthworms into
> their habitat.

Here in Oregon, the Willamette Valley Giant Earthworm has not been seen for
25 years, and is presumed extinct. They were white and huge. What does it
mean that they are gone? We haven't any idea.

> On the other hand (and here I wax political) I am not sure that the
> future will consider our current attempts to maintain "intact"
> ecosystems wise.
I do think it's wise to save everything we can that's reasonably intact,
because we don't even know what's there yet. Even an amateur like me can
tell when a place has a high degree of undisturbed diversity. But I don't
think it's time to shut the door on "immigration" in areas that we've
totally disturbed.

> I wonder if the best way to preserve some populations of interesting
> plants or animals that are not widely adapted might be to transplant
> them to new habitats, and if we ought to value local genetic diversity
> over "native". Especially as we stand at the brink of what looks to be
> a major change in many local climates - should we be predicting where
> redwood will thrive in 50 years and start nursing populations there?
> Or importing swallowtails to new stands of pawpaws?

> Ginda Fisher

I think we need to be diversifying our AGRICULTURAL ecologies as rapidly and
extensively as possible. Our simplistic pendulum swings of cultural vogues
are not the answer. To use an over-used species as an example, the USDA
origionally promoted and distributed Kudzu (for lots of good reasons, read
Shurtleff and Aoyagi's "Book of Kudzu" and look at how much $ of Kudzu
products are imported to the US every year) and now, when a SINGLE plant is
discovered in Oregon, they practically call out the National Guard. (but
couldn't, they were already off in the oilfields- but I digress) Isn't it
reasonable to assume that since Kudzu, despite government subsidy, has NOT
seized control of Oregon after 80 years of trying (While English Ivy HAS)
that Oregon does not NEED a law against Kudzu mandating herbicide strikes on
the plant and promising a career making bluejeans with free healthcare (but
no vacations) for anyone attempting to import it here?

If you look at the impact on the ecology of N. America, the invasive evil
species (besides us) would seem to be lawn grasses, no?

Back to Black Locust- (the tree that saved Hungary)
Lon says:
>I can't prove it, but I suspect that black locust seedllings have a hard time
getting established here because by the time it's warm enough for the seed
to germinate, the soil is too dry. So it only volunteers in a few places
where the soil is both moist and warm at the right time.
I also suspect that deer get most seedlings that do make it here. Seedlings
seem to succede only in cities here.
I think it's reasonable to assume from Dave's posting that Black Locust can
cause problems in an oak wood on the edge of the plains, or change a Lake
Michigan dune flora. Does that mean it should not be planted on strip mine
spoil, or used as one component of a planted woodlot elsewhere in the US? Or
used along a rural roadside in the West? They grow invasively in sediment
choked riverbeds in California, does that mean the correct response is to
mobilize hordes to rip them out and poison any remnants, or to
coppice-manage the trees for vineyard posts at the expense of the
toxic-treated post industry, while the trimmed branches produce compost for
gardens and goat forage, to the benefit of Mexican barbecue joints and
boutique creameries?

-Rick










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