msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Mounted search and rescue
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- From: "IRVIN LICHTENSTEIN" <ilichten1@verizon.net>
- To: "'Mounted search and rescue'" <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
- Subject: Re: [MSAR] Starting a MSAR team
- Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 19:52:49 -0500
What Jorene fails to recognize is that NASAR issues certificates for
successful completion of its courses, some of which are cited by various
state level volunteer search and rescue councils. This does not have the
force of either statute or case law behind it. The Mountain Rescue
Association (MRA) has a certification for member teams which is similarly
cited, mostly in the Rockies and at one time in Virginia. The Pennsylvania
Search and Rescue Council (PSARC.org) has a set of standards for member
teams. However, until some jurisdiction says it must be obeyed and or
requires use of course material containing ASTM F2209 (and so certified by a
third party) as skills accreditation of individuals serving in a SAR team,
the only legally accepted standard is the NFPA rescue standards. These are
adopted by legislation in some areas by the authority having jurisdiction or
cited by civil litigants in court by "expert witnesses" who then win awards
from juries. You must also be careful in using so called compliant course
material -- some legislated standards (OSHA, EPA, NIMS) are periodically
revised and the compliant material must be updated. Lastly, there may be
problems applying a standard to your practices. Using a tracking stick and
the step by step approach to tracking works on the ground, but may not work
on horseback or in a vehicle.
Also, even so called national standards may not be accepted in your
jurisdiction. Not all states accept National Registry Tests for EMT,
Paramedic, or IFSAC and ProBoard for firefighters. This can lead to
difficulties. National Park Service uses National Registry for pre-hospital
care providers, Pennsylvania does not so park medics cannot practice outside
the federal jurisdiction without additional testing regarding scope of
practice. All materials must be modified locally to fit local conditions.
I can teach anyone how to turn off the water, gas and electric service to a
residence but it will be different depending on who the utility is. In my
area the only recourse is to call the utility because there are no external
power shutoffs and meters are locked in place with tamperproof seal rings,
there are no curb cocks for gas service so if the meter is not outside there
is no external shutoff valve, most at the meter shutoffs for water don't
work due to lack of use and the curb or street valves are usually paved
over, requiring a jack hammer for access. But the basic premise of CERT is
that community trainees will spontaneously respond and without direction
secure the utilities so they can enter and rescue people from collapsed
buildings.
Irv Lichtenstein
-----Original Message-----
From: msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jorene Downs
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 3:55 PM
To: 'Mounted search and rescue'
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Starting a MSAR team
From: IRVIN LICHTENSTEIN
2. There are no US national standards or best practices for mounted search
and very few for ground search, urban search, and technical rescue by career
fire personnel (NFPA 1706 used to be the standard number).
================
Clarification / additional information:
International standards for the entry level Land Searcher (often known as a
SAR "ground pounder") are available through ASTM www.astm.org F2209. Many
teams have requirements to meet or exceed those expectations. NASAR's
SARtech II program (Fundamental SAR / FUNSAR) www.nasar.org is an example of
training meeting those ASTM requirements.
Urban Search, at the Basic level, is taught in the USA nationwide CERT
(Community Emergency Response Team) program, creating consistent
expectations in basic training. http://citizencorps.gov/cert/
- - - - - -
Jorene Downs
SAR & CERT
Mounted SAR
www.ceoates.com/msar
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-
[MSAR] Starting a MSAR team,
Derek (alternate), 03/25/2009
- Re: [MSAR] Starting a MSAR team, Jorene Downs, 03/25/2009
-
Re: [MSAR] Starting a MSAR team,
IRVIN LICHTENSTEIN, 03/26/2009
- Re: [MSAR] Starting a MSAR team, Helen Cunningham, 03/26/2009
-
Re: [MSAR] Starting a MSAR team,
Jorene Downs, 03/26/2009
-
Re: [MSAR] Starting a MSAR team,
Una Smith, 03/26/2009
-
Re: [MSAR] Starting a MSAR team,
Jorene Downs, 03/27/2009
- Re: [MSAR] Standards, IRVIN LICHTENSTEIN, 03/27/2009
- Re: [MSAR] NY Mounted, IRVIN LICHTENSTEIN, 03/27/2009
-
Re: [MSAR] Starting a MSAR team,
Jorene Downs, 03/27/2009
- Re: [MSAR] Starting a MSAR team, IRVIN LICHTENSTEIN, 03/26/2009
-
Re: [MSAR] Starting a MSAR team,
Una Smith, 03/26/2009
- Re: [MSAR] Starting a MSAR team, Una Smith, 03/26/2009
-
Re: [MSAR] Starting a MSAR team,
T'mi Fi, 03/26/2009
- Re: [MSAR] Starting a MSAR team, Una Smith, 03/26/2009
-
Re: [MSAR] Starting a MSAR team,
Paul Fleming, 03/26/2009
- Re: [MSAR] Starting a MSAR team, Una Smith, 03/26/2009
- Re: [MSAR] Starting a MSAR team, Kinch, 03/28/2009
- <Possible follow-up(s)>
-
Re: [MSAR] Starting a MSAR team,
Slybarbara, 03/25/2009
- Re: [MSAR] Starting a MSAR team, Helen Cunningham, 03/25/2009
-
Re: [MSAR] Starting a MSAR team,
Finkle, Tomi <CTR>, 03/26/2009
- Re: [MSAR] Starting a MSAR team, Una Smith, 03/26/2009
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