Healthy soil and sustainable growing

["Tradingpost" <tradingpost@lobo.net>]

well, nobody gets decertified here & certainly nobody would ever lose their 
farm no matter what

paul tradingpost@lobo.net

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 6/26/2011 at 12:04 AM John D'hondt wrote:

>reply interspersed
>>
>> I can't judge organics in Ireland, obviously. Here there is zero
>> possibility of field testing of produce or soil to find violations. It's
>> not in the rules so no grower could be decertified even if there were
>> tests done.
>
><<<The crime is "murder" (use of chemicals). You would have an equally
>hard
>time here if the inspector found burried corpses or just a bloodied knife
>or
>the shirt of the owner soaked in blood that was not his own. If in a test
>chemicals were found you might very well end up in jail here on top of
>loosing certification.
>
>>
>> But there's still more. Every grower is certified for specific crops at
>> specific locations. This info must be posted at every market by each
>> certified grower. We've never yet seen such a list of certified crops
>> posted by any seller at our markets or others we've visited. We saw one
>> just this morning in Albuquerque which shall remain nameless. Their
>> produce looked identical in every way to produce in supermarkets.
>
><<<Not possible here to be certified organic here for just one crop. You
>can
>not spray anywhere on your farm on the grain crop and then claim that your
>cattle or sheep are organic.
>
>>
>> Even if I were certified for lettuce I could easily grow a lot more
>> lettuce at a separate location using every chemical on that plot, and
>> market that right along with the organic stuff. How would anyone know?
>I'd
>> have the paperwork proving my lettuce is certified.
>>
>> Question: if I can think of so many ways to cheat, can't everyone else?
>> Esp when there's more profit with the "organic" label?
>
><<<I am sure that this sort of cheating is possible here as well if one is
>good at fiddling the books and none of your customers got suspicious. One
>complaint would be enough though to cost you the farm.
>
>>
>> AND if it comes down to just having to trust the "organic certification"
>> then they can just trust me too when I say I use no chemicals. Beyond
>> that, to be dead sure you have to grow your own. We want true organic;
>we
>> believe in it and always have. But it's no attack on organic to show
>what
>> a scam government certification has become in this country.
>
><<<From a distance it looks as if your whole government is now a scam.
>1984
>is here!
>john
>
>
>>
>> paul tradingpost@lobo.net
>>
>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>>
>> On 6/25/2011 at 10:02 PM John D'hondt wrote:
>>
>>>> All inspectors can inspect is the record keeping. They can't tell if I
>>>put
>>>> some 10-20-10 NPK on my bean beds. Or if I used some methyl iodide on
>my
>>>> strawberries. Or Roundup on all the weeds. There's no way without
>>>specific
>>>> and costly testing for those things and a hundred other things that
>>>> violate organic standards.
>>>>
>>>> paul tradingpost@lobo.net
>>>
>>>I don't agree Paul. At least here inspectors are walking the land. If
>they
>>>are any way good they know from the variety of "weeds" and the variety of
>>>insects and other small critters what has been done to the land as would
>I
>>>at least in a hundred and fifty mile radius from here. With knowledge of
>>>local conditions such as natural soil and past weather you know how high
>>>bean plants should be at what time of the year. What shade of green to
>>>expect from their leaves and how their root development should be. If for
>>>instance the root development is much larger than expected then you know
>>>that P has been added in a soil that is normally P deficient. If the
>>>farmer
>>>has no receipt for allowed rock phosphate then he has added something
>>>else.
>>>Over here most of the rock phosphate comes from the Spanish Sahara and
>>>consists of little bits of fossilized fish with a good number of small
>>>shark
>>>teeth visible. That does not disappear in a few weeks or even months. You
>>>see how much organic amendments such as compost have been applied simply
>>>from the color of the ground. Without compost or mulch that color would
>be
>>>reddish here or if the subsoil is exposed grey. And if you see beans
>twice
>>>as lush as in the previous farm or the next farm you inspect you know
>>>something is not right and that NPK is likely.
>>>
>>>Also, I do not think it would be that expensive necessarily to test for
>>>pesticides and fungicides. What university with a science department does
>>>not at least have one gas chromatograph? These machines are extremely
>>>sensitive and it only needs an experienced operator half an hour to sniff
>>>out any man made chemical in even the lowest concentration. If there were
>>>a
>>>serious demand for it this would not have to be that expensive.
>>>
>>>That this is not done is imo a sign of the times. It is well known that
>>>governments, really instruments of the big corporations, in many
>>>countries,
>>>at least the US and in Ireland as well have done their best to
>>>systematically reduce the requirements for organic certification. And
>that
>>>the people who originally started the "organic" movement were not at all
>>>pleased with this. This was for the benefit of the industry corporations,
>>>to
>>>allow them to get rid of original organic, small producers.
>>>
>>>john
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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