Healthy soil and sustainable growing

["John D'hondt" <dhondt@eircom.net>]

I read you Dieter. Just want to remark that industrial farming also has it's 
problems. So many of these medium sized farmers here are in debt with the 
banks.
A nice example here is from an almost neighbour of ours. About ten years ago 
C.K. was lauded as the best young dairy farmer in Ireland. To get there he 
had to borrow too deep and that forced him to do something he should not 
have done. He injected his cattle with slurry to make them react in the 
annual Tb test so he could get his hands on some cash through compensation 
money fast. That cost him jail time.
That is to me what industrial farming often leads to.
john

> John et. al,
>
> To “economically” survive as a farmer in the EU one has to do it 
> professionally.  Of all those people from the North of Europe who have 
> settled here in Portugal in the last 30 years, very few make their living 
> from the land.  Most get by doing odd jobs and/or getting some sort of 
> benefit.  Some run their own business installing solar panels, cleaning 
> swimming pools, renting out rooms, giving yoga classes, etc.  There is one 
> farmer from Holland who runs a dairy farm on a track of good land.  To set 
> up a farm like that probably costs a few millions for the land, the 
> equipment, etc.  And he came with years of farming experience under the 
> belly.  Another couple manages to scrap a living from a piece of marginal 
> hillside land by selling herbs.  But most don’t even grow their own food 
> anymore.  It is not that it is impossible – there still is a handful of 
> traditional farmer surviving near the subsistence level, even though soil 
> and climate are
> extremely harsh.  But it is very hard work and one has to reduce living 
> expenses to the point most former city dwellers are incapable or unwilling 
> to.  And why should they?  They can always go back to the city, earn some 
> money and then come back to live here in reasonable comfort for the rest 
> of the year.
>
> There are a few conflicts between the newly arrived and the old settlers, 
> but for the most part it is all very good natured.  In fact, hostilities 
> among the old settlers or among the newly arrived sometimes run deeper 
> than between the two sides, probably in part, because each side makes 
> allowances for the other being different.
>
> Both in Germany and Japan (two places I’m familiar with) there is a back 
> to the land movement - usually in the form of trying to grow at least part 
> of one’s own food while keeping a daytime job to pay the bills.  In an 
> industrial society - with a very few exceptions - farming too will be 
> industrial.
>
> Cheers, Dieter
>
>
> --- On Thu, 6/23/11, John D'hondt <dhondt@eircom.net> wrote:
>
> > From: John D'hondt <dhondt@eircom.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Looking For The Uncrowded Country
> > To: "Healthy soil and sustainable growing" 
> > <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Date: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 10:19 PM
> > This may be of use to some indeed.
> > I think there are many reasons why immigrants failed and
> > usually it is a
> > combination of many.
> >
> > One big general problem is the underground hostility of the
> > natives who see
> > foreign nationals come in and buy land that has been in
> > their "clan" for
> > untold generations. Until not so long ago even immigrants
> > from another
> > county less than 50 miles away suffered this same
> > hostility. Just two
> > examples : you go to the farmers coop to buy chicken food
> > and you are told
> > that they are completely out of it while you can see a pile
> > of bags lying
> > there. If you push further that pile has all been sold to
> > someone else.
> > Another case where a new immigrant wanted a new roof put on
> > the house they
> > bought and the local contractor took the old roof down and
> > then was too busy
> > to start the rest of the job for over a year.
> >
> > Another thing is that there is a mutual inability to
> > understand one another.
> > When a native says "yes" this does not necessarily mean
> > yes. Or if you are
> > told : "you can count on it, I'll be there on Monday." This
> > could mean next
> > Monday or Monday in six months time or never. I am still
> > amazed that my
> > children who arrived here as babies and grew up here can
> > actually usually
> > understand what "yes" or "next Monday" actually mean. To me
> > it is obvious
> > that you need an enormous amount of background knowledge to
> > do that and that
> > is what my kids spend 12 years in school at.
> >
> > Then there are the bad soil in much of West Cork where
> > agricultural produce
> > has been exported from for 800 years with never anything
> > being put back in
> > the ground. And of course an unpredictable climate. When we
> > arrived here
> > early summer 25 years ago I started planting a garden and
> > we lost just about
> > every crop we attempted. In those early days you could fill
> > a ten liter
> > bucket with slugs in an hour after dark. Then there were
> > rodents that ate
> > the potatoes that were forming before they were anywhere
> > ripe. And there
> > were and still are gazillions of midges that drive man and
> > beast to
> > distractions by sucking blood. Every single bite feels like
> > a mini electric
> > shock. They get in your nostrils and ears and climb up into
> > your pants legs.
> > They cover every bare spot of your body in their
> > thousands.
> >
> > Not difficult to see why most town folk have some problems
> > with all that.
> > When we started here we were broke after buying the
> > property but we had
> > burned our bridges and had to succeed. There was no way
> > back. Our container
> > with furniture took 8 months to arrive so we did without
> > furniture of any
> > sort for a long time. It is obvious that most relationships
> > break up when
> > times get tough. (I am extremely lucky that my better half
> > is at least as
> > tough as am I if not more so.)
> > We saw some couples borrow money from the banks to keep up
> > a certain life
> > style and then waste it on frivolous things. Others took
> > fairly menial jobs
> > and then spend to keep up with the Joneses and failed.
> >
> >
> > Most of the survivors obviously had plenty capital to fall
> > back on and some
> > even started thriving businesses but not one of them in
> > farming or food
> > production. Many started with food production or some form
> > of farming. The
> > ones that survived at all found another form of income, one
> > even by starting
> > a pyramid ponzi scheme. He got out to Portugal with a lot
> > of loot just
> > before everybody got wise. He would probably have been
> > killed if he had not
> > run away.
> >
> > That should be a start to think about Paul,
> > John
> >
> > >
> > > Instead of venturing my own guesses, what's your
> > belief about the Cork
> > > settlers failing? That's actually a serious point to
> > explore.
> > >
> > > My feeling is people won't work at it hard enough or
> > bend enough to make
> > > it until they're forced to by the direst
> > circumstances. If that's the norm
> > > then they'll have zero time in preparation and hit the
> > ground real hard.
> > >
> > > It'll be hard enough for those of us learning all the
> > DIY and community.
> > >
> > > paul tradingpost@lobo.net
> > >
> > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
> > >
> > > On 6/21/2011 at 8:29 PM John D'hondt wrote:
> > >
> > >>At least in the last five years I have put out
> > feelers to people who
> > >>might
> > >>possibly fit in our almost self sufficient family
> > community. No takers,
> > >>except a few who would sink our communal boat in
> > short order if they were
> > >>encouraged or allowed to stay.
> > >>A great many enthusiast who had read John Seymour's
> > books about self
> > >>sufficiency settled independently in West Cork,
> > Ireland in the last 20
> > >>years
> > >>to live the "good life". I have seen most of them
> > fail and that was in
> > >>times
> > >>when one could easily afford to make a few
> > mistakes. We are now coming
> > >>into
> > >>times where one mistake can upset survival on the
> > land.
> > >>I have become seriously pessimistic over the years
> > that a transition back
> > >>to
> > >>the land is possible for most.
> > >>john
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>> "Finding a place in the
> > country is central to surviving the next few
> > >>> decades, but the best land for gardening is
> > both crowded and expensive.
> > >>To
> > >>> a very large extent, where we need to live is
> > not where we can live. "
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >
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