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livingontheland - Re: [Livingontheland] the learning curve

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Subject: Healthy soil and sustainable growing

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  • From: Emery Mitchamore <emitch@att.net>
  • To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] the learning curve
  • Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 14:28:34 -0600

Paul wrote: "That's two dimensions but then there's the timing element which
complicates things." That's exactly what got me to thinking about a computer
program. I can think of no other tool or process that has the capability to
track Space vs. Time. What I'd like to do is to sketch a spatial plan,
just like Paul describes, noting when each crop is planted and when maturity
is expected, but have a machine keep snapshots of that space as time passes.
Then I'd like to add notes to that space/time plan and have the machine keep
it for future reference.

E. E. "Mitch" Mitchamore
www.hillcountrynatives.net



On Nov 21, 2010, at 11:31 AM, Tradingpost wrote:

>
> Yes. Now without seeing Plangarden I'm going to be skeptical since there
> are so many soil, plot, and weather unpredictables. Besides unexpected
> pests or personal differences. Yet it may get people thinking about how to
> plan. Either way my guess is we tend to misjudge what we can get the family
> to eat or what we like a lot or very little of. Or more likely, whether we
> know how to prepare certain things to be appetizing or to preserve thru
> cold months. Yes, more variables.
>
> I plan on graph paper with 57 3'x8' beds to scale, not counting greenhouse
> beds which are tomatos and sweet peppers. That's two dimensions but then
> there's the timing element which complicates things. Gone are the days when
> we could till up a whole plot and mark some rows, and plant stuff and wait.
> Now I find that the more planning, the less work. The more planning the
> less waste. It helps greatly to spread the work thru the year and not have
> too much to do all at once. Market's over but this is a very busy time for
> me before ground freezes.
>
> Each kind of vegetable has its own ideal planting time based on weather and
> desired time of harvest. And there are basically three types of things, 1.
> the keepers to plant all at once and harvest at one time to keep for months
> (or sell all along) inc garlic, shallots, onions, winter squash, shell
> beans, etc. 2. staggered plantings that need to be eaten or sold (or
> preserved) when picked (and leave beds open for more planting), like
> carrots, beets, kohlrabi, greens, radish, cukes, summer squash, certain
> beans etc and 3. things that keep producing till frost like indeterminate
> tomatoes, sweet peppers, some peas and beans, okra, etc. Did I get that
> right? These are not rigid categories but need to be planned that way. And
> I'm sure there are angles I haven't thought of but someone will and I'd
> like to see their thoughts on it.
>
> It's just too easy to be discouraged when we don't plan enough time to put
> away all of the peppers or green beans, or can't eat all the carrots at
> once and then have none, or can't keep up with picking so much beans or
> tomatoes and lose too many. To keep going we need to feel it's rewarding
> and worthwhile. The difference is planning. And planning the planting can't
> work apart from planning what to do with the harvest.
>
> paul tradingpost@lobo.net
>
>
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
>
> On 11/21/2010 at 7:12 AM Emery Mitchamore wrote:
>
>> Although I don't grow for market, I see this planning for crop production
>> as a serious need and opportunity. There are so many variables to
>> consider and record that it immediately sounds like a good candidate for a
>> computer program. I know that some exist, such as Plangarden, but I don't
>> hear much about how people do their planning, whether on a computer or on
>> paper. And, without a "written" plan, how can you keep records of what
>> worked (or didn't work), and why?
>>
>> May I suggest a conversation on the subject of planning (and record
>> keeping)? Considerations should include space, time, production,
>> revenue, etc
>>
>> E. E. "Mitch" Mitchamore
>> www.hillcountrynatives.net
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 20, 2010, at 9:46 PM, Tradingpost wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> In the eight years since we started this list, growing more food on
>> space available has turned mainstream. Even urban growing has sprouted
>> from Detroit to Richmond, CA and many other places. Obviously, as the need
>> grows and the economy tightens it's essential to make the best use of the
>> space, the labor and inputs. What I've learned is, for most of us, there's
>> a hard learning curve to get the most from that space. If it's going to
>> take time then some people need to start years ago.
>>>
>>> And I'm not there yet with growing for market. My use of one-sixth of an
>> acre has hit maybe 60-70% efficient use of the space, and the bottleneck
>> seems to be in the crop planning. For example, I expanded sweet peppers
>> and snow peas but miscalculated stagger timing on snow peas and wasted a
>> few beds on things that didn't sell much. Grasshoppers ruined our first
>> try at kale and chard so I'll forget that and expand beets, kohlrabi, snow
>> peas, and better onion varieties, for more continuous harvest and sale.
>> Other crops worked better than planned. It's not as simple as it sounds
>> and so far I haven't seen a book or even an article on this exact subject
>> to help. There's more on growing for home use. Either way it means growing
>> what you'll use or preserve at home, or what you can reasonably expect to
>> sell without much loss. It involves planning crop times on the ground,
>> what can be grown before or after another crop, guessing maturity times
>> and staggering certain plantings for con
>> ti
>>> nuous harvest to use or sell, and more depending on weather and other
>> committments. But, either way biointensive or some variation with
>> permanent beds and aisles seems so far to be far and away the most
>> efficient use of space, labor, water, mulch, and amendments.
>>>
>>> There is an urgency to this and not just for us. You don't make a lot of
>> money at it but it has other advantages and plenty of people can do it and
>> be better off for it. Esp when living costs keep rising and there's one
>> job opening for every five unemployed. There should be a billion dollar
>> crash program for local, healthier food run by a lot of people who are
>> better at this than I am.
>>>
>>> paul tradingpost@lobo.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
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