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  • From: "Tradingpost" <tradingpost@lobo.net>
  • To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] What should I do?
  • Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 19:34:16 -0600


Now you have a point there with the grains. In many places grains used to be
ground daily for bread flour and sold daily, but it would spoil if not used
soon. Today with the nutrients processed out to retard spoilage it's hardly
worth eating. Couldn't local communities have a grain mill so everyone
wouldn't have to buy their own and spend half the day cranking it (in case of
unreliable power)?

paul tradingpost@lobo.net


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 10/17/2010 at 10:13 PM John D'hondt wrote:

><<<Basically I agree with you Paul. Just a few thoughts about details
>maybe.
>
>
>First I must agree with your point, "having a bunch of people trying to
>hoard stuff is just switching them from hoarding DVDs and cars to hoarding
>food and gold".
>
><<<Never had enough money to start hording gold. Paper gold certificates I
>would not waste time on. But why not stock up on a few things that might
>be
>useful such as lead? Can be used for fishing weights and maybe to keep a
>roof from leaking.
>
>I assure you if his writing was worthless I wouldn't bother to question
>some
>of it. It's not. Some of his writing is a valuable springboard for
>discussion. Yet no one among us can get everything right. It's too
>complicated.To me it seems those nine steps are a very tall order for most
>people. Other than the sheer amount of work and organization called for,
>some of it requires more money than most of us can spare. We're in hard
>times already.
>
>I'm skeptical about most people being able to "have a strong local
>community
>with deep connections". There is no hope for this in the suburbs.
>Personally
>I wouldn't want much connections to those I've seen in my sparsely settled
>area. The Lions' Club has a gun show going on this weekend in connection
>with a Tea Party meeting in the next town. He is correct saying "Any steps
>we might take to prepare for a potential environmental, societal, or
>economic disruption, no matter how grand, are nearly certain to be
>insufficient. Nevertheless, they are still necessary."
>
><<<For the last four years we have been taking in wwoofers. Mostly young
>people who say they want to experience the good life on the land. About
>four
>in a hundred might be able to survive for more than a few weeks on their
>own
>when TSHTF the other 96 would be less useful than a long dead albatros
>hanging around your neck in that situation.
>I have been hoping to find people to form a community with that way for
>few
>of our neighbors are so inclined but I am ready to give up.
>
>
>The business about water storage is highly impractical for millions of us.
>And any way you cut it, storing food is going to be out of the question
>for
>millions living paycheck to paycheck anyway - not to mention those without
>paychecks, or space for adequate food storage. He's correct about our
>vulnerable food distribution system, but that doesn't solve the problem.
>One
>other snag: food with a shelf life of months or more isn't fresh enough to
>keep us healthy very long.
>
><<<With a few exceptions. Grains like wheat, barley, oats and rye, corn
>and
>rice do store quite well for years in airtight plastic barrels that you
>could even burry in the ground. A five member family in Asia needs about
>400
>kg of rice to survive for a year and that can be packed in less than 3 40
>gallon barrels. Rice is expensive these days but you can probably still by
>other grains for less than $200 per metric ton? True it is not very
>nutrient
>dense but it gives a person a full belly and at least the energy to work a
>garden.
>From my own experience I would say that it takes a year or two before a
>green beginner can even hope to grow a basic diet from a piece of land
>unless he is very lucky with the choice of land and climate, seeds and
>crop
>choice.
>Good to have something to keep starvation from the door until it starts
>working. (We also won't go short of kippers and smoked ham for a while but
>that is not so easy to do for a novice)
>
>And IMHO a CSA is a poor model for local food security since most people
>can't or won't pay for a season's produce in advance. He's right,
>gardening
>is a steep learning curve. But I can't agree your local garden store is a
>good source of information. Bad idea. Worse, getting seeds for a complete
>vegetable garden is dumb when you're starting out. You won't know what you
>can grow where you are, with your climate, your time and energy, and
>what's
>a waste of time and money until you get some experience under your belt.
>That "ReadyGardenT 1-Acre SEEDSAFET" says "Our premium non-hybrid, open
>pollinated garden seeds are a must for your emergency supplies. Each
>garden
>comes with 21 individual seed varieties and almost 25,000 seeds!" HUH?
>Have
>they ever touched a shovel and hoe? Only $84.49. And I'm sorry folks, but
>"emergency supplies" don't jibe with a garden that takes months to produce
>food. Besides, if we're trying to grow some food security, the first thing
>is to learn to produce certain foods with the caloric and vitamin content
>to
>sustain us long term, and make it foods we actually like and will eat. If
>we
>also learn to cook. Sometimes these people sound like food grows and cooks
>itself.
>
><<< Could not agree more with this paragraph Paul.
>I'm stopping there. All free to disagree.
>
>paul tradingpost@lobo.net
>
>
>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
>
>On 10/16/2010 at 12:58 PM dan conine wrote:
>
>>Hi Paul,
>> Though the people on this list are probably well versed in the idea
>>of self-reliance, community, and food, Chris Martenson's intentions, I
>>think, are sound. I don't think picking apart his list here is serving
>>our time well.
>>Let's just suffice it to say the basic premise implied is that people
>>need to be aware, have food, question their money's reliability,
>>question the system in general, and be prepared in mind and tools.
>>What's truly missing in Martenson's list is that the first thing to
>>remember is that no list is going to be useful when TSHTF unless it's
>>written on something you can eat (no war plan survives the first battle).
>>Things could go a lot of different ways, and having more people aware
>>that they are in the same boat as everyone else might be good for the
>>community. Having a bunch of people trying to hoard stuff is just
>>switching them from hoarding DVDs and cars to hoarding food and gold.
>>
>>Dan C.
>>Belgium, WI
>>
>>> I'm going to take exception to a lot of this guy's "experience", but
>>first anyone else can jump in if the urge strikes. It's not likely we'll
>>agree on it all tho, and don't have to.
>>>
>>> paultradingpost@lobo.net
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>> What Should I Do?
>>> http://www.chrismartenson.com/page/what-should-i-do
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
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