Healthy soil and sustainable growing

["TradingPostPaul" <tradingpost@riseup.net>]

I told you flaming is rude, and your personal attacks have no place on a
serious list. This list purpose is very clear in our description at
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland . You seem to be
against our very purpose. You're not making sense when you claim you don't
know the "details" of how your tenant farms, yet claim to be taking such
good care of the land. You attack us as ignorant of farming, yet we have
experience and you don't. 

I also told you I'd be glad to discuss specific farming issues, yet you
sidestep any specific issue. You even refuse to name what issues you have
disagreements about. 

If you persist in these juvenile attacks you will be treated as a juvenile
and sent to your room.

paul tradingpost@lobo.net

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/15/2007 at 5:27 PM Barbara Fischer wrote:

>There is no use talking to you as you show your ignorance everytime you
>open
>your mouth.  My father "farmed" with the tenant and planned every inch of
>the way.  The family is very careful of the land, more so than you ever
>thought about being!!!!!!!  Farmers on the land sometimes will take short
>cuts....not my father.  It was his way or the highway.  If you ever were
on
>my land it would be the highway for sure.!!!
>
>Barbara
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "TradingPostPaul" <tradingpost@riseup.net>
>To: <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
>Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 5:49 PM
>Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] "real" farming? was (no subject)
>
>
>>
>> So you're nothing but an absentee landlord, and you don't worry with how
>> it's done long as you get paid for the use of your family's land.
>>
>> Well, from what you just said, you (as in "we") produce nothing. You're
>not
>> in "that group" at all,  you don't farm; you couldn't care less if it's
>> farmed sustainably or not since you don't care to know the bothersome
>> "details"; you don't know if the poor guy farming for you is even making
>> enough to live on; you don't know the first thing about how farming is
>done
>> today; yet you tell us we don't know what we're talking about.
>>
>> Case closed.
>>
>> BTW my father was a teacher, cattleman, farmer, and I grew up on a
>tractor,
>> and his father homesteaded in Two Buttes, Colorado in 1920, and then
they
>> lived through the Depression and Dust Bowl in Kansas. Though they never
>had
>> money back then, their eight kids never went hungry because they knew
how
>> to garden and keep a root cellar. As for our way of farming in the past,
>we
>> all did it wrong and we all paid dearly. I watched cotton farmers go
>broke
>> in the 1950s, following the government's advice. I watched farm families
>go
>> from several million down to less than one million, and most of those
>work
>> a job in town to pay bills. The typical big farmer today gets about a 2%
>> return on investment (you can do better with a savings account).
>Something
>> is dreadfully wrong and we're not going to keep quiet while people who
>> haven't got a clue and couldn't care less accuse us of not knowing about
>> "real" farming.
>>
>> paul tradingpost@lobo.net
>>
>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>>
>> On 3/15/2007 at 2:50 PM Barbara Fischer wrote:
>>
>> >I only know that the topsoil is still there.....good rich BLACK earth.
>It
>> >does not blow away.  The water table is very high, being only about 50'
>> >down.  Wells bring up good water and it is unending.  We have produced
>> >record yields of over 200 bushels of corn to an acre.  We rotate crops
>> >every
>> >year between corn and soybeans.  Since we have a local farmer who farms
>it
>> >I
>> >cannot give you details.  I only know what the results are and have
>always
>> >been.  I guess I resent being in that group you all want to talk badly
>> >about.  I don't think you have any idea of what real farming is all
>> abouit.
>> >I wish you would take me off this list before I say something worse.
>> >
>> >Barbara
>> >----- Original Message ----- 
>> >From: "TradingPostPaul" <tradingpost@riseup.net>
>> >To: <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
>> >Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 3:35 PM
>> >Subject: [Livingontheland] "real" farming? was (no subject)
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> We have no way of guessing what methods your family has used to farm
>> >since
>> >> 1860. Why don't you tell us about soil and water conservation
>practices
>> >> your family has employed since 1860? What is your soil organic matter
>> >> content? We can go from there.
>> >>
>> >> I assure you we know what soil scientists and right-thinking growers
>> have
>> >> known for a very long time, that plowing and cultivating and
drenching
>> >the
>> >> land with anhydrous ammonia and superphosphate and not repleshishing
>the
>> >> organic matter with cover crops and compost has destroyed a large
part
>> of
>> >> the topsoil and its structure and fertility, and industrial
>agribusiness
>> >is
>> >> robbing the land's production for our children and grandchildren.
That
>> is
>> >a
>> >> crime against nature and the future, and we will be held accountable.
>> >>
>> >> I suggest you look into the methods of Joel Salatin, a well known
>> >> fifth-generation farmer who farms sustainably and only sells locally.
>It
>> >> would be very awkward to tell him he doesn't know what "real" farming
>is
>> >> about.
>> >>
>> >> If you really want  to insist most of us don't know what we're
talking
>> >> about, then I suggest you answer specific issues about growing
methods
>> >> instead of flaming, which on any list is a mark of inability to
reason
>> >from
>> >> evidence.
>> >>
>> >> paul tradingpost@lobo.net
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>> >>
>> >> On 3/15/2007 at 2:14 PM Barbara Fischer wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >I am getting just a little bit tired of all the bashing of the
>previous
>> >> >farmers.  My family has been farming the same farm in central
>Illinois
>> >> >since 1860 and we haven't "ruined" it yet.  Most of you don't know
>what
>> >> >you are talking about.  ...being a "little" garden plot farmer does
>not
>> >> >make you knowledgeable about real farming.  Geezh!
>> >> >
>> >> >Barbara
>> >> >  ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >> >  From: Gloria Baikauskas
>> >> >  To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing
>> >> >  Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 11:48 AM
>> >> >  Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] (no subject)
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >  From my reading I have read that there was really only the one
>group
>> >in
>> >> >South America that did agriculture right.  The Kakopki....can't for
>the
>> >> >life of me remember their name....though I know it is something in
>that
>> >> >region of the alphabet.   I have been forgetting lots of things of
>late
>> >> >because of personal stress unfortunately.    These were the ones who
>> >> >planted around trees on mounds.  They then left....came back to tend
>> the
>> >> >plants and top the trees so they would get sun before harvest.
>> >> >
>> >> >  The terra preta folks apparently did something right since their
>soil
>> >is
>> >> >still fertile.  It was my understanding that they did not slash and
>> >> >burn....but rather that they buried wood in clay pots in the ground
>and
>> >> >covered it after starting it on fire to create charcoal.  Something
>> >about
>> >> >the mixture made the terra preta.  I haven't read the article for a
>> >> >while...so my memory is a bit fuzzy.   I know scientists have tried
>> >> >repeatedly to reproduce it and have not exactly gotten it
>right....but
>> >> >close.
>> >> >
>> >> >  The Amazon is infertile....but it was planted intentionally in
>rows.
>> >It
>> >> >only sustains the plants that grow within it which have adapted to
>the
>> >> >soil and surroundings.   It may have at one time been a great farm.
>> >Dunno.
>> >> > They are still trying to figure that one out....and ripping it down
>to
>> >> >try farming it, ranching it....and failing.
>> >> >
>> >> >  Yeah.....we did make quite a mess of the land in the US.  Twas
>those
>> >> >brilliant folks in the 40s and 50s who didn't listen to the leaders
>in
>> >> >their field on how to fix the problem....but who instead turned to
>the
>> >new
>> >> >guys with their saving grace chemicals.....with stupid planting
ideas
>> >like
>> >> >monocropping.  Better to go back to the small farms again which did
>> >> >produce....and to let the small farmers grow hemp again so if the
>food
>> >> >crop fails they still have something that won't to pay the bills.
>> >> >
>> >> >  Gloria, Texas
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>> -
>> >> ---
>> >> >
>> >> >
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