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["Shea Tisdale" <shea AT sheatisdale.com>]

Chad Ingham wrote:
> Okay, first, values/morals do not equal religion.   I'll bet money you
> have values and you may not even be religious.

And unfortunately having religion doesn't equal having values or morality in
many cases.
> 
> Let's get away from saying "Christian" values.  It's not about any
> particular religion's values.  The real issue is about anybody pushing
> their values on to someone else, regardless of the value's origin.  Not
> that I care all that much but it only obfuscates the real issue.
> 
> Now please clarify something for me.  You said that there are no moral
> difference between a true Republic and a true Democrat.  This statement
> throws me off.  Abortion.  Is this a moral issue?  

Is killing innocent men, women and children in a war a moral issue?  
Is lying to someone a moral issue?  
Is lying to the country you lead a moral issue?
Where is the morality in lying to people about or denying them proper sex
education if it leads to an unwanted pregnancy and possibly an abortion?

And to answer your question.  When it comes to a religious argument for
abortion, there is no argument that holds water.  If religious people are
truly religious they should realize that a basic principle of most religions
is freedom of choice.  God could have easily forced anyone into doing what
he wanted.  Easily designed people so that it wasn't possible.  Easily made
it something that killed you when you did it.  I could go on and on.  But
what the issue has now become is one of a group trying to impose thier
beliefs and morals on another...something God himself didn't do.

As for a moral argument, I guess I would side with you.  I think abortion is
a moral issue.  But I believe that imposing my view point on someone else is
also a moral issue.  

Are there any people
> who are not neo-con Republicans who believe abortion is morally wrong?
> 
> Chadwick Ingham
> Perfect Storm, Inc.
> (919) 434-1314
> chad.ingham AT perfectstorm.biz
> 
> 
> 
> zman wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 2 Dec 2004, Chad Ingham wrote:
> >
> >> This has nothing to do with freedom of religion.
> >
> >
> > Actaully it does. The side you seem to be taking is the side that has
> > decided it's ok to push Christian values down our throats.
> >
> >> I said there was a values difference between the parties (their
> >> platforms, not every single person who might label themselves as a
> >> member).  And there are value/moral differences.  How can you
> >> possibly argue that?  That is the entire reason for various parties.
> >> The end goals of happiness and prosperity are all the same but it the
> >> means to this end that differ.  What the appropriate method for
> >> achieving x goal is determined by a shared value.
> >
> >
> > Again, bullshit. There aren't any real moral differences between true
> > Republican and Democrats. What you are alluding to are the morals that
> > the neo-con Republicans seem to think it's ok to push upon us.
> >
> >> And, no, this doesn't mean that an entire half of the population is
> >> morally corrupt or evil because they voted for a presidential
> >> candidate over another. For the record, I don't believe Democrats are
> >> evil or satanists because then I'd be one on occassion.  You're
> >> jumping to stereotype me.  No thank you. I'm not religious and hold
> >> no bias against any religion.
> >
> >
> > You did it yourself bucko...
> >
> >> For your benefit, perhaps I should clarify that I wasn't talking
> >> about choosing only the "Republican" or "Democratic" set of values to
> >> bring in to sex ed teaching.  I meant you can choose any set of mixed
> >> values and someone is going to have an issue with it.  And in our
> >> political system, the values are most like to lean more towards a
> >> Republican or Democratic platform of values and therefore the other
> >> party is going to raise a ruckus.  Which is what congressman
> >> what's-his-name has done.
> >
> >
> > What you are failing to grasp is there is supposed to be a seperation
> > of church and state. And again quit buying into the Republican
> > propaganda. There aren't any groundbreaking differences in the values
> > between Democrats and Republicans. Quit buying into the fascist
> > propaganda..
> >
> > Scott H. Zekanis
> > zman AT kungfumonkey.com
> > http://www.rod-o-rama.com
> > http://www.thehellbenders.com
> > 1957 Buick Riviera Hardtop (2 dr., 425" Nailhead)
> > 1959 GMC in Chevy Sheetmetal 1/2 Ton (235" Inline 6)
> > 1990 Ducati 750 Sport
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