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  • From: "John Brand" <jbrand AT gvsd.mb.ca>
  • To: Corpus-Paul <corpus-paul AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: RE: [Corpus-Paul] Romans 1-2: Logos/Christos as Soter
  • Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:19:09 -0600

From: "David Hindley" <dhindley AT compuserve.com>
To: "'Corpus-Paul'" <corpus-paul AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: RE: [Corpus-Paul] Romans 1-2: Logos/Christos as Soter
Date sent: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 02:35:40 -0700

> Toynbee's approach is the paramount example of what is now called
> "historicism," usually said with a sneer. It is the idea that
> universal laws about the rise and fall of civilizations can be deduced
> from the mass of historical data, and these laws can be used for the
> purpose of social engineering or at least to make predictions about
> the direction a nation is taking given certain historical
> circumstances (war, famine, disease, environment, governmental
> structure, etc). However, historicism has been severely challenged by
> the likes of Karl Popper.

John responds:
I am not sure how to address the ad populum fallacy "historicism'
usually said with a sneer" except to recall Wittgenstein's analogy of
the chess game i.e do we have any empirical basis for sneering at
other 'games' when the one that we have set up to play is merely a
construct developed apart from any outside benchmark?

Toward the end of the 19th Century we see a growing consensus among
some of the disciplinesin agreement with Hegel that the traditional
hope for a unified field of knowledge be abandoned. This is
articulated well by Herbert Spencer:

"Then behind all these mysteries lies the all-embracing mystery --
whence this universal transformation which has gone on throughout a
past eternity, and will go on unceasingly throughout a future
eternity! And along with this rises the paralyzing thought --what if,
of all that is thus incomprehensible to us, there exists no
comprehension anywhere?"

The Hegelian assumption moves most of the disciplines to become
skeptical of any attempt to find a universal comprehension. Thus, the
old 'chess game' is changed with no empirical reason for doing so
other than the apparent failure to find a comprehensive or unified
field of knowledge. The new 'chess game' of modernity will only allow
those players who will play by the rules built upon the newly
embraced despair. However, as Wittgenstein endeavors to show: there
is no benchmark outside the system upon which to reject other
systems. The best that can be done is to use ad populum appeals in
hope that the other attempts will just go away or build an army and
wipe them out :0)

Perhaps you could provide details of Karl Popper's criticism on more
empirical grounds.

As to Toynbee I am well aware that his approach in some respects is
dated. However, his view that the unit of historical study is not
'the state' but 'the civilization' appears to have a great deal of
merit particularly as I am proposing in studies of Paul's Epistle to
the Romans. And this is integral to my thesis. We tend to see the
Roman 'state' as a fragmented collection of elite and non-elite
rather than considering what is typically the development of a
civilization around a core of elite. I included World Systems Theory
in my proposal as a supplement to Toynbee as well as the work of Karl
Jaspers who would assume Spencer but go on to look at patterns
nonetheless. His concept of an axis age is astounding in its insight.

Back to Toynbee: there is a great deal of merit in the stages that a
civilization moves through: a stage of genesis, growth,
efflorescence, achieving an apogee, followed by a "time of troubles",
decay and decline and eventual extinction. But Toynbee's list of
civilizations has been likened to a "grab bag." The Dutch philosopher
Johann Huzinga is a classic critic of Toynbee.

Thanks for the response.

Regards,

John Brand
B.A. (Providence College, 1980)
M.Min. (Providence Seminary, 1990)







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