Corpus-Paul

[<stephen.finlan AT durham.ac.uk>]

Fred Rich wrote:
> 
> 1 Tim 2:15... as saying 'women are saved by the childbirth'
>  i.e. of Jesus. 

But the context is not about Jesus, but on proper behavior
for women; they are to not wear braided hair or gold 
(v. 9), are to do "what befits" them (v. 10), are to learn
in submissiveness (v. 11), are not to teach men (v. 12),
So it is logical to perceive v. 15 as further advice to
women.  The verb is singular.  It says "she will be 
saved through (_dia_) childbearing."

I think you are correct to say that the Pastor is not--
> suggesting that women are only saved if they have children.

It is not mean to be taken quite THAT literally.  It is a
hyperbolic, but serious, recommendation of childbearing
as the best choice for women.

Steve Finlan
Durham
>From sdblack AT telus.net  Fri Apr 11 15:03:32 2003
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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 12:06:59 -0700
To: Corpus-Paul <corpus-paul AT lists.ibiblio.org>
From: Steve Black <sdblack AT telus.net>
Subject: Re: [Corpus-Paul] Re: Ecclesiology
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***As an aside***

- the logic of the writer of 1 Timothy escapes me.
He writes that women should not be leaders because:
" Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a 
transgressor." (1:14) The woman was deceived by the craftiest of all 
of God's creature - the serpent - whereas the man presumably wasn't 
deceived at all if we follow 1 Tim - and so he knew exactly what he 
was doing. He willfully and knowingly did what was wrong.
  - thus it seems to me that that would make him a far more unreliable leader.

For what its worth...

>Fred Rich wrote:
>>
>>  1 Tim 2:15... as saying 'women are saved by the childbirth'
>>   i.e. of Jesus.
>
>But the context is not about Jesus, but on proper behavior
>for women; they are to not wear braided hair or gold
>(v. 9), are to do "what befits" them (v. 10), are to learn
>in submissiveness (v. 11), are not to teach men (v. 12),
>So it is logical to perceive v. 15 as further advice to
>women.  The verb is singular.  It says "she will be
>saved through (_dia_) childbearing."
>
>I think you are correct to say that the Pastor is not--
>>  suggesting that women are only saved if they have children.
>
>It is not mean to be taken quite THAT literally.  It is a
>hyperbolic, but serious, recommendation of childbearing
>as the best choice for women.
>
>Steve Finlan
>Durham
>_______________________________________________
>Corpus-Paul mailing list
>Corpus-Paul AT lists.ibiblio.org
>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/corpus-paul


-- 
Steve Black
Vancouver School of Theology
Vancouver, BC
---

The lion and the calf shall lie down together
but the calf won't get much sleep.
-Woody Allen
>From fwhughes AT sunbeach.net  Sat Apr 12 10:23:17 2003
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From: "Frank W. Hughes" <fwhughes AT sunbeach.net>
To: "Corpus-Paul" <corpus-paul AT lists.ibiblio.org>
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Subject: Re: [Corpus-Paul] Did Paul's churches copy his letters?
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 10:22:52 -0400
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I guess my first response would be, "Why assume that there was a standard
practice of preserving or not preserving Paul's letters?"  There were
apparently two or more opinions of Paul in the Corinthian church even during
his lifetime.  Paul had no written credentials, such as letters of
recommendation.  Different churches might well do different things with his
letters -- both during his lifetime and afterwords.  Different Christian
leaders, after his death, who may have had different levels of contact with
the historical Paul, may have had different attitudes towards keeping
letters of Paul around or referring to them as authoritative.  What was true
in Thessaloniki wouldn't necessarily be true in Philippi or Corinth or GOK
where else.

Frank W. Hughes
Codrington College
Barbados