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  • From: "cfjacks" <cfjacks AT attbi.com>
  • To: "Corpus-paul" <corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
  • Subject: Re: Prison in Ephesus?
  • Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 13:00:12 -0400


Please excuse me for intruding into this conversation, but have either of
you gentlemen read what Edgar Goodspeed and John Knox had to say about these
matters? I might also include
Morton Scott Enslin, who championed the concept of an "Ephesian captivity."

Clive F. Jacks, Th.D.
Professor of Religion, Emeritus
Pikeville College,
Pikeville, KY

(but now happily retired back home in metropolitan Atlanta)


----- Original Message -----
From: David Inglis <david AT colonialcommerce.com>
To: Corpus-paul <corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 12:43 PM
Subject: [corpus-paul] Re: Prison in Ephesus?


> Richard Fellows wrote:
> > Dave Inglis wrote:
> > >As I understand it, there is absolutely no evidence that Paul was ever
in
> > >prison in Ephesus.
> >
> > Dave, Philippians was almost certainly written from Ephesus, therefore
there
> > was almost certainly an Ephesian imprisonment. On 18th May I explained
that
> > the planned movements of Paul and Timothy in Philippians fit exactly
with
> > what was the plan shortly before the writing of 1 Corinthians. This is
> > evidence for an Ephesian provenance for Philippians, and is therefore
> > evidence for an Ephesian imprisonment. I suggest that you engage with
this
> > argument, or re-word your statement above.
>
> Richard, you and I have had this discussion before. There are two things
> wrong with what you have written above:
>
> 1) All you have done is to show that the movements of Timothy do not
> preclude an Ephesian imprisonment. This does not mean it is likely, or
> even probable.
> 2) You are also assuming that Philippians and Ephesians were both written
> during the same imprisonment, without providing any evidence to support
> that assumption.
>
> > >However, IMHO an Ephesian imprisonment is actually very unlikely. In
> > >particular, it would be very strange indeed if someone in prison in
> > >Ephesus needed to write a letter to people there telling them that:
> > >"Tychicus, my dear brother and faithful servant in the Lord, will make
> > >everything known to you, so that you too may know about my
circumstances,
> > >how I am doing." (Eph 6:21)
> >
> > Your logic here is flawed. Even if you were right to believe that
Ephesians
> > was written by Paul from Rome to Ephesus, that would have little bearing
on
> > the question of the place of Philippians or the question of an Ephesian
> > imprisonment. The arguments for an Ephesian imprisonment derive from
> > Philippians, not Ephesians.
>
> On the contrary, your logic is flawed, and you haven't even addressed my
> point. The discussion isn't about Philippians. Your comment regarding
> the movements of Timothy is simply one small piece of evidence that allows
> for the possibility of Philippians having been written from Ephesus. It
> certainly provides no evidence against a Roman imprisonment, nor does it
> provide evidence against Ephesians having been written from Rome.
>
> As you stated above "Even if you were right to believe that Ephesians was
> written by Paul from Rome to Ephesus, that would have little bearing on
> the question of the place of Philippians or the question of an Ephesian
> imprisonment." In other words, you believe that Philippians and Ephesians
> could have been written in different places, and so you cannot use
> Philippians to provide evidence for Ephesians. IMHO you need to do *much*
> better than this to show that it is likely that Ephesians was written from
> Ephesus.
>
> One thing that has not been mentioned yet is the connection between
> Ephesians and Colossians. Many people have noted the similarities between
> Colossians and Ephesians, and have suggested that one is a partial copy of
> the other (which actually very strongly suggests that at least one of
> these letters is from Paul, since it is unlikely that someone else would
> copy from a forgery).
>
> It seems reasonable to suggest that there was a specific problem that
> Colossians was intended to address, and that Ephesians was intended to
> address similar concerns to a more general readership that Paul believed
> he would never get to meet. This is suggested by Paul's own belief that
> he would not return to Ephesus (and presumably other places close by)
> after having been to Rome.
>
> In Acts we read: "From Miletus he [Paul] sent a message to Ephesus,
> telling the elders of the church to come to him. When they arrived, he
> said to them . And now I know that none of you among whom I went around
> proclaiming the kingdom will see me again . Even from among your own group
> men will arise, teaching perversions of the truth to draw the disciples
> away after them." (Acts 20:17,18,25,30) These warnings later became real,
> and are dealt with in Col 2 and Eph 5.
>
> Other evidence points to Colossians and Philemon having been written at
> about the same time:
> · Both letters are sent from Paul and Timothy (Col 1:1, Phm 1);
> · Paul sends greetings from Aristarchus, Mark, Epaphras, Luke, and Demas
> in both letters, indicating that all these people are with Paul at the
> time (Col 4:10-14, Phm 23-24);
> · Paul mentions Archippus in both letters (Col 4:17, Phm 2);
> · Onesimus (the subject of Philemon) is mentioned in Col 4:9.
>
> Although it is possible that all these people could be mentioned in
> letters not written at about the same time and from the same place, it is
> very unlikely.
>
> Some of Paul's companions are not mentioned at all in Acts: Titus, Luke,
> Epaphras, Onesimus, Archippus, and Demas. With the exception of Titus all
> of these are mentioned in or are with the author of both Colossians and
> Philemon. The most reasonable explanation is that these letters post-date
> the action in Acts, and given the prison references, that they were both
> written during the same period time period.
>
> Perhaps the most striking references are to Luke, who is only mentioned in
> Colossians, Philemon, and 2 Timothy. The only reasonable explanation is
> that Paul was sufficiently far away from the recipients of these letters
> (in Colosse) that they would not otherwise know that Luke was still with
> Paul. This is also most likely the reason why Paul mentions so many other
> people in Colossians (in particular) and Philemon - he is too far away
> from Colosse for there to be any communication except through these
> letters.
>
> I contend that the simplest and most reasonable explanation for all these
> similarities and issues regarding Ephesians, Colossians, and Philemon is
> that they were all written during Paul's first imprisonment in Rome (Acts
> 28:30-31), around 60-62 AD.
>
> Dave Inglis
> david AT colonialcommerce.com
> 3538 O'Connor Drive
> Lafayette, CA, USA
>
> ---
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