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  • From: grady <grady AT ibiblio.org>
  • To: RTP-area local music and culture <ch-scene AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: Sound proof/attenuation construction
  • Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:29:45 -0500

Sound transmission across the broadest range of frequencies is a function of mass above all else, so that's why I recommended ICFs (the fact that you work for a concrete contractor sounds like a bonus to me, assuming you can get a deal on the pumper truck).

I don't have #s on ICFs vs staggered-stud, but I'd lay money that ICF will perform better. I'd be curious to see any comparison you found online, though, for sure.

Plus if you somehow still wound up with issues, you could add an interior stud wall (although I'd be taking extra care to look at openings, both around doors & also any wall penetrations (electric, plumbing, HVAC, etc) first)

Depending on the size of the room, you may very well be driven quickly deaf by all the HF reflections, but knocking down HF that's bouncing around is something that's less difficult -- depending on the frequency, anything from a couple of inches of compressed fiberglass to yr good old-fashioned carpet scraps, etc.

Here's a random site with a sound absorption table for a wide range of surfaces (scroll down a bit): http://www.cowanaudio.com/acoustic.html

Once you get in there & start playing, you can determine what kind of treatment you need. If you're getting killed by stuff around 1khz, for instance, acoustic tile, carpet or heavy drapes look pretty good, but compressed fiberglass looks even better.

There are plans on the internet for building what are essentially big shallow plywood boxes that you load compressed-fiberglass sheets into, then cover with chicken-wire and burlap. I built a bunch for WXDU years & years ago & they help a lot.

The good thing about absorbing/diffusing reflections is that *any* amount of material you install in the space helps . . . you don't have to uniformly cover every surface.

The other alternative to all of this, of course, is to build a bomb shelter underground in the backyard. Future occupants of your house would doubtless find that to be pretty kewl. ;-)

Good luck!

Ross


Michel Inserny wrote:
This room will only serve the band practice purpose. Yes, I would use any
construction technique available to make the room to serve its purpose (I
play the drums, so I need to practice without annoying neighbors, and I need
to have a band practice space where I could practice for several hours at
night, few nights a week with no issues) If I'm going to spend the money in
the project I need it to work.

I didn't think of ICF before, cause somehow I thought staggered stud walls
with insulation in between would provide better sound proofing than ICF.
I'll check again though.

Since I work for a concrete contractor, the idea was to build a slab on
grade. However, would you put any type of flooring above that (for better
acoustics?)

Also, I wasn't thinking of having any windows and when I get to construction
phase I will get all permits and stuff. Right now I'm at the engineering and
design phase and the plan is to have this done by July.


Thanks for your help.

Michel

On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 10:37 AM, grady <grady AT ibiblio.org> wrote:

One word: mass

Another word: seal all openings (wait, that was three words)

Do you have any intention at all of making this a multipurpose space? Do
you have the ability/desire to use any construction techniques available
to you?

If I were building a box solely to keep sound in, I'd do the following:

1) slab-on-grade construction
2) walls made out of ICFs (Insulating Concrete Forms):
http://www.forms.org/
3) no windows (sorry! no view for you!)
4) Doubled doors (one framed to be flush with the exterior wall & the
other to be flush with the interior wall) with heavy weatherstripping

The roof/ceiling structure might actually be trickiest, but if you use
double drywall on the ceiling & then load up on the insulation above,
you'd probably be OK.

If you're just looking for *attenuation* as opposed to major
soundproofing, then you can start eliminating items from that list.

You still have to adhere to the basic rules of thumb, though: sound is
going to exit the structure either through holes (even tiny ones) or by
vibrating the walls of the structure itself. So you have to seal all the
holes, and you have to make the walls of the structure massive enough
that your drums/amps can't effectively make them vibrate. Or decouple
the interior & exterior walls enough that if the interior ones vibrate,
the exterior ones don't.

Ross

James Hepler wrote:
OK, so you're building a structure from scratch, and you have all
necessary
permits and everything? I just want to be clear that what I'm picturing
in
my head is what you have in mind.

* Windows: The single best way to limit the amount of sound that
permeates
will be number and sizes of windows. If you can limit that, you're off
to a
great start. but then you have climate control to think about. So
planning
is obviously key.

I really hope I'm not sounding condescending. I'm thinking in print.

* If you're building from scratch, you have the luxury of putting most of
your sound dampening material inside the walls. I would think that some
good, dense insulation would be pretty much all you need in order to keep
sound in. I mean, I practice in my guest room, and while neighbors two
doors down can hear THAT we're practicing when they're in their back
yards,
nothing makes it through both sets of walls, and I have crappy insulation
if
I have any at all.

It seems like it would be pretty easy to get your outside walls put up
and
insulation installed and then test it out.

I don't think it would take much to get everything within the parameters
of
local ordinances. This is all I can think of, and others are way smart
and
more experienced when it comes to this stuff than me. Listen to them.
Good
luck!




On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 8:51 AM, Michel Inserny <minserny AT gmail.com>
wrote:
Good morning fellas,

I'm sure this has been discussed in the past, but I'm trying to get some
help building a band practice space in my back yard. Has anybody done
something similar that can give me some contacts, web links, telephone
numbers, etc to get some advice as of what's the best way to sound
attenuate/proof new construction so my neighbors dont complain when I
play
music in that room?

This will be a new, independent building that will be a little more than
100
ft away from any neighbor, and I need to make 100% sure it works for the
purpose.

Thanks,

Michel
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