Development of Creative Commons licenses

[Andres Guadamuz <anduril13 AT gmail.com>]

Hi,

I completely agree with the goal of wider adoption, and I am also a great supporter of institutional adoption. The problem is that I honestly cannot see from your message and explanation what is the issue with regards to the current moral rights wording, other than the continuous statement that this is problematic for institutions, and the statement that the law for data varies from one jurisdiction to the other (which it does).

I was part of CC-UK (and CC-Scotland before that), so I am very familiar with the UK government licence and with the reasons that led to their adoption of their own licensing solution instead of CC, and they had nothing to do with moral rights as far as I know.

It is a great goal to  strive for the widest possible level of institutional adoption, but a licence of this type cannot strive to be universally accepted. CC licences may not meet all criteria in some institutions. IMO 4.0 goes a long way towards making it easier for institutions to adopt the licences.

Best Regards,

Andres

On 14/04/2012 02:58 p.m., pcreso AT pcreso.com wrote:

1334437094.66278.YahooMailClassic AT web160704.mail.bf1.yahoo.com" type="cite">

We'll have to agree to differ.

However, if CC desires their licences to be as applicable for data as they are for creative works, particularly for those responsible organisations around the world who currently feel the CC licences are inadequate for their data, (for moral rights issues & other reasons) then it is up to CC to provide a suitable licence. The organisation I work for has its own, as do many other agencies & in the UK example, the UK Govt itself. While these licences may be consistent with many of the principles enshrined in CC licences, they only exists because of perceived inadequacies in the CC licences.

I'd like to encourage CC to ensure their licences do meet our needs, so we are comfortable using them. By not recognising our concerns, and providing a licence we are comfortable using, we will continue to use alternative licences.

This is not a major issue for us, but more one for CC if they genuinely desire to make their licences more widely applicable, particularly in the Data Commons, as they claim to be doing.

Cheers,

   Brent

--- On Sun, 4/15/12, Andres Guadamuz <anduril13 AT gmail.com> wrote:

From: Andres Guadamuz <anduril13 AT gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [cc-licenses] Moral rights, Attribution & Choice of Law
To: pcreso AT pcreso.com
Cc: "Development of Creative Commons licenses" <cc-licenses AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Sunday, April 15, 2012, 12:25 AM

Hi,

pcreso AT pcreso.com wrote:

> However, CC is pushing the same licences for data, without indicating
> the difference between legislated moral rights for data & for creative
> works. I do not regard this as a responsible approach, especially with
> CC4 being openly touted as being more appropriate for data, and the CC4
> licence wording not addressing this issue to date.

I agree that moral rights are treated differently in various
jurisdictions, including different treatment with how the law deals with
data and software. However, I do not think that it's CC's responsibility
to inform of this fact to its users, or to confuse authors with lengthy
explanations of how the law deals with data specifically in NZ,
Australia, the UK, or civil law systems.

The licence has to do only one thing with regards to moral rights. To
the extent that it is allowed by law (and in many jurisdiction it is
clearly NOT possible), the owner promises to waive and/or not assert
their moral rights. That is done by the current draft in the best way
possible. The wording could be slightly clearer to that extent, but it
does what it says on the tin.

I am still unsure as to why you think that this should be treated
differently even after reading your email twice. The objective is to
make the licence as clear as possible, and any explanation about
different ways in which jurisdiction deals with moral rights does not
help to reach that objective.

Best Regards,

Andres


On 13/04/2012 22:17, pcreso AT pcreso.com wrote:
> Hi Andres,
>
> Some detail (hopefully not too much)...
>
> Moral rights under CC apply well (generally) for creative works. I don't
> have any issues in that regard.
>
> However, CC is pushing the same licences for data, without indicating
> the difference between legislated moral rights for data & for creative
> works. I do not regard this as a responsible approach, especially with
> CC4 being openly touted as being more appropriate for data, and the CC4
> licence wording not addressing this issue to date.
>
> As an aside: a data mashup can be based on some underlying data without
> presenting any of that data in the final product. This is also a
> situation very different from creative works. Data was used but is no
> longer there as explicit content. How does CC apply? Attribution is
> relatively straightforward, but what about inappropriate or misleading use?
>
> In New Zealand the law is explained in this guide from the Copyright
> Council:
> http://www.copyright.org.nz/html/blob.php/Moral+rights.May2007.pdf?attach=true&document=339&filetypecode=1&fileId=105
> <http://www.copyright.org.nz/html/blob.php/Moral+rights.May2007.pdf?attach=true&document=339&filetypecode=1&fileId=105>
>
> The relevant section:
> "Who has moral rights? Moral rights belong to authors of:
> - literary works, including novels, screen plays, poems and song lyrics;
> - dramatic works, including dance, mime and film scenarios or scripts;
> - musical works;
> - artistic works, including paintings, drawings, diagrams, maps, engravings,
> etchings, photographs, sculptures and architectural works.
>
> Moral rights are also enjoyed by directors of films made on or after 1
> January 1995
> (even though copyright is usually owned by film producers).
>
> Creators of sound recordings and computer-related works have no moral
> rights under
> the Copyright Act."
>
> Data is regarded as computer-related works, and those who release
> datasets under CC enjoy no moral rights to protect against misuse or
> misrepresentation of them or their data. Very different for those
> releasing creative works. Where does CC warn of this possibility when
> suggesting their licence be used for data?
>
> In Australia, moral rights afford the usual protection, from
> http://www.copyright.org.au/admin/cms-acc1/_images/20373146284f39afed9ca39.pdf:
>
> "Creators have the right:
> - to be attributed (or credited) for their work;
> - not to have their work falsely attributed; and
> - not to have their work treated in a derogatory way.
> ...
> This could include:
> - distorting, mutilating or materially altering the work in a way that
> prejudices the creatorʼs honour or reputation; and
> - in the case of artistic works, destroying the work or exhibiting it in
> public in a way that
> prejudices the creatorʼs honour or reputation.
> ...
> Moral rights apply to:
> - literary material such as novels, screenplays, poems, song lyrics and
> journal articles;
> - artistic works such as paintings, drawings, architecture, sculpture,
> craft work, photographs, maps and plans;
> - musical works;
> - dramatic works such as ballets, plays, screenplays and mime;
> - computer programs; and
> - cinematograph films such as feature films, documentaries, music
> videos, television programs and television commercials."
>
> But NOT data. Also, in Australia, moral rights are considered "personal"
> and "individual" rights, and cannot be vested in institutions. Most data
> is released by institutions, not individuals. Again, where does CC
> responsibly explain this to potential users?
>
> The UK Open Government Licence is often described as a CC compliant
> licence. Largely it is, but it includes some additions that cover these
> issues pertaining to data. They were deemed necessary, otherwise an
> actual CC licence could probably have been used. They affirm the moral
> rights of the data licensor, and place responsibilities upon the user.
> From: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/
>
> Data users must:
>
> # "...ensure that you do not use the Information in a way that suggests
> any official status or that the Information Provider endorses you or
> your use of the Information;
> # ensure that you do not mislead others or misrepresent the Information or
> its source;
> # ensure that your use of the Information does not breach the Data
> Protection Act 1998 or the Privacy and Electronic Communications (EC
> Directive) Regulations 2003."
>
> The second requirement in particular effectively applies a moral rights
> clause to data released under this licence, which is missing in
> legislation. By suggesting users of CC licences that whatever they
> release under CC is afforded local moral rights protection I believe CC
> is misleading them. Until this is addressed, CC licences are not as
> applicable or suitable for data as they are for creative works.
>
> There is a difference in law between creative works & data, and licences
> for data should be clear about this.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Brent Wood
>
>
> --- On *Sat, 4/14/12, Andres Guadamuz /<anduril13 AT gmail.com>/* wrote:
>
>
>     From: Andres Guadamuz <anduril13 AT gmail.com>
>     Subject: Re: [cc-licenses] Moral rights, Attribution & Choice of Law
>     To: cc-licenses AT lists.ibiblio.org
>     Date: Saturday, April 14, 2012, 12:17 PM
>
>     You have mentioned this before. Can you elaborate? Moral rights are
>     handled quite well in my opinion, the current wording covers all of
>     the national practices, this has been the subject of constant
>     discussion since the early licences, and the existing practice seems
>     to fit well in various jurisdictions.
>
>     On 13/04/2012 02:24 p.m., pcreso AT pcreso.com
>     </mc/compose?to=pcreso AT pcreso.com> wrote:
>>     Moral rights are described in a very misleading fashion, and the
>>     issues regarding these as providing protection for data released
>>     under CC licences need to be far clearer. Frequently there are none.
>>
>>     In the US, Moral Rights only pertain to visual media. In Australia
>>     moral rights can only be assigned to individuals, not
>>     organisations, in New Zealand computer related works are exempt.
>>     CC makes little or no attempt to explain the distinction, &
>>     limitations of CC licences for data.
>>
>>     Those who wish to release data under CC licences, something CC is
>>     trying to encourage, need to be aware that many countries have
>>     different laws covering data & creative works, and that CC
>>     licences relying on local Moral Rights legislation provide very
>>     different protections.
>>
>>     --- On *Thu, 4/12/12, Kent Mewhort /<kmewhort AT cippic.ca>
>>     </mc/compose?to=kmewhort AT cippic.ca>/* wrote:
>>
>>
>>         From: Kent Mewhort <kmewhort AT cippic.ca>
>>         </mc/compose?to=kmewhort AT cippic.ca>
>>         Subject: [cc-licenses] Moral rights, Attribution & Choice of Law
>>         To: "Development of Creative Commons licenses"
>>         <cc-licenses AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>>         </mc/compose?to=cc-licenses AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>>         Date: Thursday, April 12, 2012, 9:08 AM
>>
>>         IMO, the overall direction of this license looks to be shaping up
>>         nicely. A few comments:
>>
>>         Moral rights
>>         -------------
>>
>>         1. Substantive comment:
>>         It's not clear to me that this provision moves us anywhere
>>         different
>>         from the status quo. It seems to only turn the question of whether
>>         moral rights have been violated into a question of whether an
>>         act is a
>>         "reasonable exercise" of the rights under the license. Isn't this
>>         essentially the role of moral rights in the first place? Moral
>>         rights
>>         set the threshold on whether a particular exercise of a copyright
>>         license or assignment is reasonable in light of the author's
>>         personal
>>         interests.
>>
>>         I would suggest leaving moral rights altogether intact.
>>         Attribution and
>>         non-association form part of the CC license terms themselves,
>>         so are
>>         unlikely to be otherwise violated. For other moral rights such as
>>         integrity and derogatory action, this is generally a
>>         reasonable high bar
>>         and I can't image would pose any significant sharing hurdles
>>         (unless the
>>         bar is much lower in some other jurisdictions). Alternatively,
>>         if we do
>>         insist on waiving moral rights, I suggest simply waiving them
>>         entirely
>>         to avoid any disputes about what constitutes a "reasonable
>>         exercise".
>>
>>         2. Formal comment:
>>         This wording took a couple of doubling-backs to understand
>>         what it's
>>         actually saying. To improve clarity, I suggest striking out
>>         the two
>>         embedded "however..." clauses and instead leading off with
>>         "Only to the
>>         minimum extend possible and necessary to allow You to reasonably
>>         exercise...".
>>
>>         Attribution
>>         ------------
>>
>>         3. The scope of "any reasonable manner" seems a bit too broad,
>>         especially given the importance and multi-faceted purpose of
>>         attribution. I liked the old "at least as prominent as" provision,
>>         though I can see how this can cause problems in some contexts. How
>>         about "any reasonably prominent manner", or even "a reasonable
>>         manner
>>         consistent with, to the extent feasible, any customary
>>         attribution for
>>         the medium or means You are using".
>>
>>         New definition of to "Share"
>>         -----------------------------
>>
>>         4. If we end up with no ports, this definition may not be
>>         sufficient to
>>         equally cover the intended activities in all jurisdictions.
>>         For example,
>>         in Canada, we have no "making available" right as of yet and
>>         the right
>>         to "communicate to the public" by telecommunication arguably
>>         doesn't
>>         cover one-to-one downloads through services such as iTunes (an
>>         issue
>>         which is presently before our Supreme Court). It might be
>>         advisable to
>>         insert an "or distribute" in there.
>>
>>
>>         Choice of Law
>>         --------------
>>
>>         5. There hasn't been much discussion on this, but I think deserves
>>         careful consideration in light of the move towards
>>         internationalization. Given the different laws on fair dealing,
>>         copyright terms, and other aspects of copyright law, it
>>         creates a lot of
>>         uncertainty to simply leave choice of law to local conflict of law
>>         rules. I think something analogous to the U.K. government
>>         license could
>>         work well to tighten up certainty: "This licence is governed
>>         by the laws
>>         of the jurisdiction in which the Information Provider has its
>>         principal
>>         place of business, unless otherwise specified by the
>>         Information Provider. "
>>
>>         Alright, that's all for now :)!
>>
>>         Kent
>>         _______________________________________________
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
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>>
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>
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