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Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship
- From: Dave Washburn <davidlwashburn AT gmail.com>
- To: "b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
- Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship
- Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 20:58:13 -0700
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 7:54 PM, J. Leake <jesleake AT yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I pretty much reproduced the grid as I was taught. I haven't paid that much attention to the intricate details of the stems in quite some time, so you could be correct.
Agreed. I see its survival in this one term as a bit of a relic, sort of like "goodbye" in English. It survived in a fixed form whose origins were probably lost in the mists of time.I must admit, Dave, that that's not how I see the 'hole':Basic G-stem Emphatic D-stem Causative H-stemactive qal pi'el hiph'ilpassive qal passive pu'al hoph'alreflexive/middle niph'al (? hithpa'al) hithpa'el hishtaph'elAs I see it the question is whether here was an original hithpa'al as a qal reflexive, perhaps replaced into the hithpa'el as the qal passive was by the niph'al. But the connection between the H-stem causatives and SH-stem in oher Semitic languages is supposed to be strong. So perhaps the pre-NWS system had a shaph'ala for a hiph'il.
I pretty much reproduced the grid as I was taught. I haven't paid that much attention to the intricate details of the stems in quite some time, so you could be correct.
That fits much better with the Arabic system:Basic G-stem Emphatic D-stem Reciprocating Causative H-stemactive fa'ala fa''ala fâ'ala 'af'alapassive fu'ila fu''ila fû'ila 'uf'ilareflexive/middle infa'ala / ifta'ala tafa''ala tafâ'ala istaf'alaIn fact the N-stem can probably be better seen as a separate agent-less passive pattern that replaced the qal passive at some point than specifically tied to the qal.
I don't know Arabic so I'll take your word for it.
BTW, we are speaking of the pre-history of Hebrew here - athough the qal passive seems to be well attested in the Biblical text, the hishtaph'el was obviously no longer a productive stem by Biblical Hebrew times.
--
Dave Washburn
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Re: [b-hebrew] God's name
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- Re: [b-hebrew] God's name, Yigal Levin, 06/17/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship, K Randolph, 06/17/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship,
Dave Washburn, 06/16/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship, Petr Tomasek, 06/16/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship,
Isaac Fried, 06/16/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship, Dave Washburn, 06/16/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship, Dave Washburn, 06/16/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship,
Isaac Fried, 06/17/2013
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Message not available
- Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship, Isaac Fried, 06/18/2013
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Message not available
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Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship,
K Randolph, 06/17/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship,
J. Leake, 06/18/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship, Isaac Fried, 06/18/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship,
J. Leake, 06/18/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship,
Petr Tomasek, 06/19/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship, J. Leake, 06/19/2013
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