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Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship
- From: "J. Leake" <jesleake AT yahoo.co.uk>
- To: "b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
- Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship
- Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 03:54:43 +0100 (BST)
I must admit, Dave, that that's not how I see the 'hole':
Basic G-stem Emphatic D-stem Causative H-stem
active qal pi'el hiph'il
passive qal passive pu'al hoph'al
reflexive/middle niph'al (? hithpa'al) hithpa'el hishtaph'el
As I see it the question is whether here was an original hithpa'al as a qal reflexive, perhaps replaced into the hithpa'el as the qal passive was by the niph'al. But the connection between the H-stem causatives and SH-stem in oher Semitic languages is supposed to be strong. So perhaps the pre-NWS system had a shaph'ala for a hiph'il.
That fits much better with the Arabic system:
Basic G-stem Emphatic D-stem Reciprocating Causative H-stem
active fa'ala fa''ala fâ'ala 'af'ala
passive fu'ila fu''ila fû'ila 'uf'ila
reflexive/middle infa'ala / ifta'ala tafa''ala tafâ'ala istaf'ala
In fact the N-stem can probably be better seen as a separate agent-less passive pattern that replaced the qal passive at some point than specifically tied to the qal.
BTW, we are speaking of the pre-history of Hebrew here - athough the qal passive seems to be well attested in the Biblical text, the hishtaph'el was obviously no longer a productive stem by Biblical Hebrew times.
John Leake
'inna SâHiba Hayâtin hanî'atin lâ yudawwinuhâ: 'innamâ, yaHyâhâ.
(He who lives a comfortable life doesn't write about it - he lives it.)
Tawfiq al-Hakim, Yawmiyyât Nâ'ib fil-'Aryâf.
(He who lives a comfortable life doesn't write about it - he lives it.)
Tawfiq al-Hakim, Yawmiyyât Nâ'ib fil-'Aryâf.
From: Dave Washburn <davidlwashburn AT gmail.com>
To: "b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, 15 June 2013, 1:13
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship
To: "b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, 15 June 2013, 1:13
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship
On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 3:26 PM, K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com> wrote:
Ken:
On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Ken Penner <kpenner AT stfx.ca> wrote:
Do the following help?
Joüon §59g: "In the light of Ugr. tštḥwy “she prostrates herself,” what used to be considered hitpa̧ʿlẹl, represented almost entirely by the frequent הִשְׁתַּחֲוָה to worship, to prostrate oneself, is most likely a Hištafʿel of √ חוי."From where does he get this?
What you're seeing, both there and in the Jouon quote, is a grammarian trying desperately to figure out what's going on with this unique word. It used to be taught that it was a hitpa`el of $XH with metathesis of the shin and the tau, and no clue why the waw. But as Ken already mentioned, Ugaritic has shown us that the root is actually XWH and the stem is a hi$tap`el. Once upon a time we had a grid of stems with a hole in the middle:
Basic Emphatic Causative
Active qal pi`el hip`il
Passive nip`al pu`al hop`al
Reflexive nip`al ? hitpa`el
Thanks to Ugaritic, we now know what goes where the question mark is. And yes, it only survives in this one word in that language, too. That's an accident of preservation, but I don't really think anybody can deny that the word exists.
--
Dave Washburn
Check out my Internet show: http://www.irvingszoo.com/
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Re: [b-hebrew] God's name
, (continued)
- Re: [b-hebrew] God's name, Sarah Blake LaRose, 06/17/2013
- Message not available
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- Re: [b-hebrew] God's name, Yigal Levin, 06/17/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship, K Randolph, 06/17/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship,
Dave Washburn, 06/16/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship, Petr Tomasek, 06/16/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship,
Isaac Fried, 06/16/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship, Dave Washburn, 06/16/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship, Dave Washburn, 06/16/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship,
Isaac Fried, 06/17/2013
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Message not available
- Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship, Isaac Fried, 06/18/2013
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Message not available
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Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship,
K Randolph, 06/17/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship,
J. Leake, 06/18/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship, Isaac Fried, 06/18/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship,
J. Leake, 06/18/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship, Petr Tomasek, 06/19/2013
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