Biblical Hebrew Forum

[David Kolinsky <hadeesh AT sbcglobal.net>]

Mike

So why have you been asking about these particular words?
David Kolinsky
Monterey, CA

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From: Mike Burke <michaelgburk AT yahoo.com>
To: David Kolinsky <hadeesh AT sbcglobal.net>; "b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tue, May 21, 2013 12:52:07 PM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] מבדיל בעדי

>>>>Mike,

בעדי (OBJECT) (SUBJECT) מבדיל 
could mean:  (subject) separates (object) for my sake / on my behalf.

Without the yod:

(OBJECT of a preposition) בעד (OBJECT) (SUBJECT) מבדיל
could mean:  (subject) separates (object) for sake of / throughout (object of a preposition)<<<<

Thank you.

>>>>Can you give us some insight regarding what you are trying to do?<<<<

If you must know, I'm having an on-going internet dialogue with someone who believes that numbers and the Hebrew words (ancient and/or modern) they can be associated with (thru gematria and/or kabbalah) have "great significance."

One of my questions was how this is possible when the words arrived at often have opposite meanings.

He basically said that that was significant, and it's significance is to teach us something about human choice and free will.

I can think of a lot of questions, but need to have some idea of what the words we're discussing actually mean (or can mean) to ask them properly (or even to understand his answers, or lack or answers.)

Thank you.

 

Michael Gerard Burke

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From: David Kolinsky <hadeesh AT sbcglobal.net>
To: "b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] מבדיל בעדי

Mike,

בעדי (OBJECT) (SUBJECT) מבדיל 
could mean:  (subject) separates (object) for my sake / on my behalf.

Without the yod:

(OBJECT of a preposition) בעד (OBJECT) (SUBJECT) מבדיל
could mean:  (subject) separates (object) for sake of / throughout (object of a preposition).

Can you give us some insight regarding what you are trying to do?


David Kolinsky
Monterey, CA

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From: Mike Burke <michaelgburk AT yahoo.com>
To: David Kolinsky <hadeesh AT sbcglobal.net>; "b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tue, May 21, 2013 11:23:39 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] מבדיל בעדי

>>>>a bit nicer than Karl's "Gibberish"<<<<

Thank you.

But I think Karl used the word "non-sense," and I used the word "gibberish" (in a previous email, in which I asked him to tell me if that's what he thought the words were.)

>>>>3 - all the way over, beyond (SmII20:21)<<<<

Does SmII stand for Second Samuel?

>>>>And lastly, just because something stated is not a full sentence, does not mean that it means nothing - phrases, even tiny prepositional phrases still mean something.  They might not tell us much but the absence of other parts of speech do not make them gibberish. <<<<

Thank you, I think.

So מבדיל בעדי isn't just gibberish?

It could mean something (in ancient or modern Hebrew)?

Michael Gerard Burke

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From: David Kolinsky <hadeesh AT sbcglobal.net>
To: "b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] מבדיל בעדי

Pere and others,

Getting a little tired of being ignored on this list.

As I told Mike, B'\aD means the following:

1 - for the sake of, on the behalf of (Gn20:7)(Ex8:24;32:30)(Lv9:7)(SmII10:12)(Jr11:14)(Ps138:8)(Jb2:4)

2 - through (Gn26:8)(Js2:15)(Jd5:28)(SmI4:18;19:12)(KgII1:2)(Pr6:26)(Jb22:13)

3 - all the way over, beyond (SmII20:21)

4 - enclose around (SmI1:6) 
behind.. (Gn7:16)(Jd3:23;9:51)(KgII4:4,33)(Is26:20)(Ss4:Mike1)

5 - in the meantime (Gn20:18)

I further stated that there is no B'\aDae, just B'\aD and \adae
(yes, I did not clearly state the suffixed form stated here by Pere)
I also stated:

"there is no way for us to know if it would have made any sense to a Biblical Hebrew speaker. 
Perhaps it was perfectly sound Biblical Hebrew. 
Perhaps, it would make sense but feel awkward to them. 
Perhaps it would mean to them something different. 
Perhaps it would mean nothing to them at all."

a bit nicer than Karl's "Gibberish" - allow me to remind you Karl, "Neither you, nor I,
nor anyone on this list speak Biblical Hebrew.  We were not there and we are not native!"

And lastly, just because something stated is not a full sentence, does not mean that it means nothing - phrases, even tiny prepositional phrases still mean something.  They might not tell us much but the absence of other parts of speech do not make them gibberish.

David Kolinsky
Monterey, CA


From: Pere Porta <pporta7 AT gmail.com>

To: George Athas <George.Athas AT moore.edu.au>
Cc: "b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Mike Burke <michaelgburk AT yahoo.com>
Sent: Mon, May 20, 2013 10:05:19 PM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] מבדיל בעדי

George and Yigal (moderators), I agree with you.

But... since Mike's main trouble seems to be the word B'DY, we might have replied that in biblical use  this word is or means "for me".(for instance the last word in Ex 8:24).  And also "behind me" as in Jon 2:7.

And that it appears nine times in the Bible.

Namely, we might have tried to make our list interesting for Mike instead of trying, indirectly, to expel him from it.

 

Pere Porta

(Barcelona, Catalonia, Noreasthern Spain)

2013/5/21 George Athas <George.Athas AT moore.edu.au>

Mike,

As has been alluded to by others, including another of the moderators, you need to reconsider whether B-Hebrew is the forum for you. We assume a knowledge of Hebrew for all participants, but your questions are steadily giving the impression that knowledge of Hebrew isn't something you really possess. We aim to discuss the language and literature of Biblical Hebrew, and therefore ask that members not treat the forum as either their personal blog, a journal, or a Hebrew knowledge vending machine. Do please consider how you are using the list.

Regards,

GEORGE ATHAS

Co-Moderator, B-Hebrew

Sydney, Australia

From: Mike Burke <michaelgburk AT yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Mike Burke <michaelgburk AT yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, 21 May 2013 12:49 AM
To: B-Hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: [b-hebrew] מבדיל בעדי

What does מבדיל בעדי mean?

 

Michael Gerard Burke

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Pere Porta

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