Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Samuel Nunez <samuelnunez1973 AT sbcglobal.net>]

Dear Karl,

I agree with you that this text poses many questions and that it is difficult at first sight to understand. I do feel encouraged though by how we currently approach the text. It use to be that history dominated this field of study, now it is linguistics or a text oriented approach that is beginning to dominate the field; as you have previously indicated, linguistics questions many of the previous assumptions.

Regarding your view that we must begin to count the 70 week time period in the time of Nehemiah, I agree. The text in Daniel 9:25 indicates the rebuilding of the walls and streets; not the temple which had been dedicated and completed in the reign of Darius (see Ez 6:15). The edict that was given to rebuild the walls and the streets seems to be connected to the time of Nehemiah during the reign of King Artaxerxes I  (Ez. 7).

Just for context the 70 week time period comes as a response to Daniel's conundrum as the 70 years of Jeremiah were coming to an end and there was no indication that the city would be restored or that they would be able to go back to Jerusalem as promised ( Dan 9:2, 19, 20).

Now from a strictly textual standpoint this is what I understand Dan 9:24-27 to be saying regarding the anointed one:

First, I understand the text in Dan 9:25 to say that the Messiah prince would come not after the seven weeks, but after the seven weeks and 62 weeks (a total of 69 weeks).

Secondly, the text indicates that the Messiah would come and die between the rebuilding of the walls and streets and the destruction of the temple and the city (Dan 9:25, 26).

Lastly, verse 27 describes that he would make a covenant with many and in the middle of the last week put an end to sacrifice and grain offering, which in my understanding is also thematically related to a string of infinitives found in verse 24 "to finish transgression,  make an end of sin, make atonement for iniquity, bring in everlasting righteousness, seal up vision and prophecy and anoint the most holy place."

Samuel Nunez

On Oct 17, 2012, at 12:49 AM, K Randolph wrote:

Dear Samuel:

I have heard the theory that you propose below, but there are problems with it. As this discussion group is about the language of Biblical Hebrew, not about theology, I can’t comment on some of it.

From strictly linguistic standpoint there is nothing that says that the three shorter periods are consecutive with one following immediately after a previous one. The final period is listed as closing the 70 sevens of years, so there’s no question there. The first 7 sevens of years starts the total, so again no question, except who is the anointed leader who comes at the end of that period? But the middle period, the 62 sevens of years, starts when? What indication is there that the 70 sevens unit is anything other than one unified time period? Everything I see in Daniel indicates that it was one unified period.

Looking at chapters eight and twelve of Nehemiah, Nehemiah is shown as a contemporary of Ezra. History indicates that Ezra lived and worked around 400 BC. The command to rebuild Jerusalem was given to Nehemiah, which means that the command to rebuild Jerusalem couldn’t come more than about two decades before 400 BC. That means that the 70 sevens of years period ended about 70 AD, give or take a few years.

Looking at ancient history, many of the dates that are presented as so fixed by professional historians are really but educated guesses that could be off by a decade or two, or in the case of Egyptian history off by centuries.

The focus of Daniel 9:24-27 seems to be, as far as I understand,  the events happening after the 62 week period or in my view events occurring at least 69 weeks or 483 years after the edict to build the walls of Jerusalem (Ez 7:11). 

The problem for me is that the arithmetic doesn’t add up.

As previously mentioned, one of these events is the appearing of The Messiah Prince (v. 25).

Who is this Anointed Leader משיח נגיד? This prophecy has been fulfilled, you should be able to name him from history. So who was he?

 

Another is the death of the Messiah (v. 26). Still another is the destruction of the temple and city (v. 26). Then it describes him (Messiah) confirming a covenant with many,

Say what? The last person mentioned before this verse is the Coming Leader נגיד הבא, so why should we not consider him to be the one who causes to enforce a covenant with many?

 

  a ceasing (shabat) of sacrifice and offering in the middle of the last or 70th week; the last part of the verse gives the reason or cause of the destruction of the desolate city (Jerusalem) as being idolatry or false worship (shiqqutz). 

It is my understanding that this 70 week time period or 7 week and 62 week and one week period of Daniel 9: 24-27 are consecutive.

So you claim that the seven years of war and destruction, in which the sacrifices ceased half way through, started immediately after the death of Messiah? Remember, this is a fulfilled prophecy.

Samuel Nunez

From the text, I see three clocks starting at the command to rebuild Jerusalem. This was separate from rebuilding the temple under Cyrus. We see that Nehemiah was commanded to rebuild Jerusalem which was, except for the second temple and a few houses to support the priests, still a ruin. One clock was 7 sevens of years until the Anointed Leader. The second clock was for 62 sevens of years until Messiah was cut off. The third clock that started at that time was for 70 sevens of years, that ended with a seven year period of war and destruction, half-way through the sacrifices ceased. Seeing that Nehemiah was a contemporary of Ezra the Scribe, that makes the giving of the command to rebuild Jerusalem shortly before 400 BC. 490 years later, the seven year war, half-way through of which the temple sacrifices were stopped, destroyed by the people of the leader to come (the general who led the Romans became emperor), fulfilled the closing of the prophecy. It all fits together, just as Biblical prophecy should.

Karl W. Randolph.