Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Ishnian" <ishinan AT comcast.net>]

Dear Geroge,

I am very surprised on your insistence tjat 'this is what the text says.' and 
that 'this is an exegetical fact." In our interpretation  of nouns and 
prepositions, it is a rare situation where we categorically can say: 'This is 
the only meaning.'  So, when you repeat this sweeping claim, I see the need 
to repeat the main points in this discussion.

1) The noun RQY( occurs 11 times in the Tanakh, three times in Genesis, four 
times in Ezekiel, and one time each in Psalm 19:2; 150:1 and Daniel 12:3.  In 
Psalm 19:1 RQY( is parallel with $NYM; in Psalm 150:1 it is parallel with 
God's sanctuary; and in Daniel 12:1 it is parallel with the stars.   Ezekiel 
1 and 10 are visions where  literal things of three dimensions are used in a 
symbolic way to describe heavenly things. Above the living cretures is the 
RQY( and above the RQY( is the throne of God. Whether RQY( is solid or 
non-solid in the Psalms and Daniel we cannot know with certainty. But the 
parallels suggest a non-solid state.

2. The verb RQ( can refer to something non-solid, namely to dust and clouds 
(Job 37:18), and $MYM can be viewed as non-solid (Deuteronomy 28:23, 24). 
This means that the root RQ( CAN refer to something that is non-solid.

3) You translate (L-PNY as "across," and that is a good translation, but not 
the only alternative translation. In Genesis 1:2 you insist that (L-PNY 
indicate a surface, "across the surface of the waters." But here you are 
wrong! I guess that you never tell your students that a particular Hebrew 
preposition has only one meaning. It is true that most Bible translations use 
the word "surface," but NAB says "darkness covered the abyss" and "a mighty 
wind swep over the waters." NJB says "over the deep" and "over the waters." 
The spatial description is that darkness either was above THWM or covered it, 
and RUX was above the waters.

4) The spatial description in Ezekiel is as follows: 1:22 says that RQY( was 
ABOVE ((L) the heads of the living creatures, and 1:23 says that "UNDER (TXT) 
the RQY( their wings were spread out.  If we compare this spatial description 
of  these texts with Genesis 1:20, we see that the birds fly "above" ((L) the 
earth and "across" ((L-PNY) the  RQY(. The birds do not fly UNDER (TXT) the 
RQY(.  The comparison with the use of prepositions in Genesis 1:2 and Ezekiel 
1:22 and 23 indicate that the RQY( either is below the birds, or that the 
birds fly through the RQY(. There is nothing in Genesis 1 which indicates 
that the birds fly UNDER the RQY(.

5) The view that the birds fly through the RQY( is supported by 1:8 where it 
is said that the name of the RQY( is $MYM, and by 1:20, 28  where we find the 
expression "the birds of heaven." We find the same expression in 1 Kings 
16:24, Jer 4:25, Ezekiel 29:5, and numerous other places. The natural 
interpretation of "the birds of heaven" is "the birds that fly above us." 
There is nothing mythical here.

My challenge to you is: Please prove on the basis of lexical semantics that 
RAQY( had a surface that could be touched! It is not enough to claim that 
"This is what the text says."



Best regards,


Rolf Furuli
Stavern
Norway



Søndag 9. September 2012 10:31 CEST skrev George Athas 
<George.Athas AT moore.edu.au>:


  None of this gets around the basic exegetical fact: In Gen 1, the birds fly 
across the surface of the רקיע, just like the spirit/wind hovers across the 
surface of the waters. If it has a surface, it is perceived as something that 
could be touched. That's what the text says.

  Whether the ancients understood this as a metaphor is another issue, but 
one which inevitably sees us importing extra-textual considerations, into the 
equation. In other words, the argument that the רקיע is not actually 
something that could be touched is invariably a foray into tangential 
considerations that take us away from what the writer of Gen 1 actually wrote.


  GEORGE ATHAS
  Dean of Research,
  Moore Theological College (moore.edu.au)
  Sydney, Australia