Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Bryant J. Williams III" <bjwvmw AT com-pair.net>]

Dear Yigal,

First, I do not have access to the Hebrew text at the present (any one know 
of a
online source?). Martin Abegg, Jr. and I both learned Hebrew together at
Northwest Baptist Seminary under Dr. Richard D. Patterson (now at Liberty
Seminary) and Dr. Hermann A. Austel (died May 2011). Both were translators for
the NASB and NLT. Martin Abegg has seen the DSS and so, I going by what he is
saying at this time until I have an opportunity to see the texts themselves. 
So,
I understand the fallacy that you are stating, but until I have access to the
manuscripts that is all I have to go on. At least, I was able to give Karl and
others have the DSS location of the Genesis 14 text in question.

Second, considering scribal practices of the Second Temple Period regarding 
the
sacred text, I would not think that the scribes of the DSS would make that 
kind
of updating unless it was in the margins. True, it is "possible" that does not
mean "probable." I am more inclined to follow the DSS = MT here unless the
evidence shows otherwise. Furthermore, if it cannot be determined one way or
there other, then we are dealing with hermeneutical issues which I will not
discuss since it is against list guidelines.

Third, at least there is a translation of the DSS manuscripts. It should have
been done years ago, but the IAA and their policies regarding the DSS hindered
publication, but I won't comment further since I may have come close to
violating list guidelines.

Rev. Bryant J. Williams III


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Yigal Levin" <Yigal.Levin AT biu.ac.il>
To: "b-hebrew" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar


> Dear Bryant,
>
> Not that I'm taking Jim's side here, but I assume that you do realize the
fallacy of what you're doing. You are using a translation of the DDS to prove 
a
point about the text of the MT.
>
> 1. What does the HEBREW text of the DDS say? Is it identical (at this 
> specific
point) to the MT? If so, all you've proven is that the translators understood 
it
to mean "13th year", not that that's what the text originally meant. We've
already established that most translators, beginning with the Septuagint,
understood it this way.
>
> 2. Even if the HEBREW text of the DDS is worded in such a way as to 
> definitely
mean either "13th" or "13 (more)", can that be considered a definitive
interpretation of the MT? or might the scribe of the DDS have been "updating"
his text to make it mean what he thought that it should mean? This is 
obviously
what he does with the rest of this story.
>
>
> Yigal Levin
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Bryant J. Williams 
III
> Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 7:16 PM
> To: K Randolph
> Cc: B-Hebrew
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar
>
> Dear Karl,
>
> Regarding the DSS. The following is taken from
> ***The Dead Sea Scrolls: A New Translation***
> by Michael Wise, Martin Abegg, Jr., and Edward Cook
> San Francisco: Michael, Martin Abegg, Jr., and Edward Cook and 
> Harper-Collins,
1996.
>
> 1QapGen 22:23-23:26
> Pages 82-83,
>     "Abraham battles the four kings of the east. Compare Genesis 14, whose
narrative this portion of the Tales elaborates considerably. The author of the
Tales is also concerned to update or identify the names of biblical peoples 
and
places."
>    " 23    Prior to those days Chedorlaomer, the king of Elam, Amraphel, the
king of Babylon, Arioch, the king of Cappadocia, and Tidal, king of Goiim, 
which
24 lies between the two rivers had come. They had waged war on Bera, the king 
of
Sodom, Birsha, the king of Gomorrah, Shinab, the king of Admah, 25 Shemiabad,
the king of Zeboiim, and the king of Bela. All these gathered themselves
together to battle in the Valley of Siddim. Now, the king of 26 Elam and the
kings with him proved stronger than the king of Sodom and all his allies. Thus
they imposed tribute upon them.
>     For twelve years they continued 27 to pay their tribute to the king of
Elam, but in the thirteenth year they rebelled against him. Consequently, in 
the
fourteenth year the king of Elam sallied forth with 28 allies, and they 
ascended
by way of the desert."
>
> The key verses are 26-27,
>     "26 Elam and the kings with him proved stronger than the king of Sodom 
> and
all his allies. Thus they imposed tribute upon them.
>           For twelve years they continued
>     27 to pay their tribute to the king of Elam, but in the thirteenth year
they rebelled against him. Consequently, in the fourteenth year the king of 
Elam
sallied forth with 28 allies, and they ascended by way of the desert."
>
> Note also on Page 83, that in Column 23 of the same manuscript verse 12ff
regarding the rescue of Lot by Abraham,
>     "12 those who had bee captured he brought back.
>         The king of Sodom heard that Abram had recovered all the captives 13
and plunder, so he went up to meet him. He came to Salem, that is, Jerusalem,
whereas Abram was encamped in the Valley 14 of Shaveh, that is the Valley of 
the
King, the Valley of Beth Hakerem. Now Melchizedek, the king of Salem, provided
15 food and drink for Abram and all the men with him. He himself was a priest 
of
the God Most High, and he blessed 16 Abram, saying, "Blessed be Abram by God
Most High, the Lord of heaven and earth, Blessed be God Host High 17 who has
closed your grasp about enemies."
>
> Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
>
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