b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Biblical Hebrew Forum
List archive
- From: "Bryant J. Williams III" <bjwvmw AT com-pair.net>
- To: <JimStinehart AT aol.com>, <chavoux AT gmail.com>, <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
- Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar
- Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 23:15:37 -0700
Dear Jim,
Let us start from the beginning with the text at hand.
Genesis 14:4-5:
MT "4 שְׁתֵּ֤ים עֶשְׂרֵה֙ שָׁנָ֔ה עָבְד֖וּ אֶת־כְּדָרְלָעֹ֑מֶר
וּשְׁלֹשׁ־עֶשְׂרֵ֥ה שָׁנָ֖ה מָרָֽדוּ׃
5 וּבְאַרְבַּע֩ עֶשְׂרֵ֨ה שָׁנָ֜ה בָּ֣א כְדָרְלָעֹ֗מֶר וְהַמְּלָכִים֙
אֲשֶׁ֣ר אִתֹּ֔ו וַיַּכּ֤וּ אֶת־רְפָאִים֙ בְּעַשְׁתְּרֹ֣ת קַרְנַ֔יִם
וְאֶת־הַזּוּזִ֖ים בְּהָ֑ם וְאֵת֙ הָֽאֵימִ֔ים בְּשָׁוֵ֖ה קִרְיָתָֽיִם׃
LXX 4 δώδεκα ἔτη ἐδούλευον τῷ Χοδολλογομορ, τῷ δὲ τρισκαιδεκάτῳ ἔτει
ἀπέστησαν. 5 ἐν δὲ τῷ τεσσαρεσκαιδεκάτῳ ἔτει ἦλθεν Χοδολλογομορ καὶ οἱ
βασιλεῖς οἱ μετ̓ αὐτοῦ καὶ κατέκοψαν τοὺς γίγαντας τοὺς ἐν Ασταρωθ Καρναιν καὶ
ἔθνη ἰσχυρὰ ἅμα αὐτοῖς καὶ τοὺς Ομμαίους τοὺς ἐν Σαυη τῇ πόλει
NLT 4 For twelve years they had been subject to King Kedorlaomer, but in
the
thirteenth year they rebelled against him.
5 One year later Kedorlaomer and his allies arrived and defeated the Rephaites
at Ashteroth-karnaim, the Zuzites at Ham, the Emites at Shaveh-kiriathaim,
NIV 4 For twelve years they had been subject to Kedorlaomer, but in the
thirteenth year they rebelled.
5 In the fourteenth year, Kedorlaomer and the kings allied with him went out
and
defeated the Rephaites in Ashteroth Karnaim, the Zuzites in Ham, the Emites in
Shaveh Kiriathaim
NRSV 4 Twelve years they had served Chedorlaomer, but in the thirteenth
year
they rebelled. 5 In the fourteenth year Chedorlaomer and the kings who were
with
him came and subdued the Rephaim in Ashteroth-karnaim, the Zuzim in Ham, the
Emim in Shaveh-kiriathaim,
NCV 4 They had served Kedorlaomer for twelve years, but in the thirteenth
year, they all turned against him. 5 Then in the fourteenth year, Kedorlaomer
and the kings with him came and defeated the Rephaites in Ashteroth Karnaim,
the
Zuzites in Ham, and the Emites in Shaveh Kiriathaim.
It will be noticed that the Hebrew text does indicate, by context, 12 years,
in
the13th year, in the 14th year; although the Hebrew could, possibly, indicate
they served 12 years, they rebelled 13 years, in the 14th year Chedorlaomer
arrived (26 total years). It is evident that the LXX (so also the Vulgate -
not
listed) using the dative case in 14b, τῷ δὲ τρισκαιδεκάτῳ, followed by ἐν δὲ
τῷ
τεσσαρεσκαιδεκάτῳ in 5a, understood the text to be the former. Yigal's posts
does indicate that some Rabbinic sources read the latter, but not all. Nir
Cohen's formulation of the Hebrew text is also possible, but not probable
because of context. Furthermore, it is evident that the four different
translations above: 2 FE and 2 DE ALL translate it as the former (12th, in the
13th, in the 14th year). BTW, all the translations that I have, about 20, have
what the English texts above translate. That does not mean that one trusts the
translations, but it behooves one to have ALL the evidence put forth to go
against how the Hebrew is translated.
Then there is the problem with the whole Amarna issue. Abraham is circa 20th
Century BCE (2000). He is NOT the 14th Century BCE (1400) which is the time
of
Akhenatan's rule. So who ruled in Jerusalem, Meggido, Lachish, Sechem, etc.
really does not help identifying the year Abraham was in Hebron, when you are
looking in the wrong century; you are about 600 years off.
Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/696 - Release Date: 02/21/2007
3:19
PM
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar
, (continued)
- Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar, JimStinehart, 08/24/2011
- Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar, JimStinehart, 08/25/2011
- Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar, rob acosta, 08/26/2011
- Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar, Chavoux Luyt, 08/26/2011
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar,
JimStinehart, 08/26/2011
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar,
rob acosta, 08/29/2011
- Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar - THREAD ALMOST CLOSED, Yigal Levin, 08/29/2011
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Akhenaten and Abraham,
rob acosta, 08/31/2011
- Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 THREAD CLOSED, Yigal Levin, 08/31/2011
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar,
rob acosta, 08/29/2011
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar,
JimStinehart, 08/26/2011
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar,
Bryant J. Williams III, 08/28/2011
- Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar, jimstinehart, 08/28/2011
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar,
K Randolph, 08/28/2011
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar,
Bryant J. Williams III, 08/28/2011
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar,
Yigal Levin, 08/28/2011
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar,
Bryant J. Williams III, 08/28/2011
- Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar, Yigal Levin, 08/28/2011
- Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar, Bryant J. Williams III, 08/28/2011
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar,
Bryant J. Williams III, 08/28/2011
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar,
Yigal Levin, 08/28/2011
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar,
Bryant J. Williams III, 08/28/2011
- Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar - discussion drawing to a close, Yigal Levin, 08/28/2011
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar,
jimstinehart, 08/28/2011
- Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar - THREAD ENDS TONIGHT, Yigal Levin, 08/29/2011
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Year 13 Hebrew Grammar,
Bryant J. Williams III, 08/28/2011
Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.