Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Vadim Cherny <vadimcherny AT gmail.com>]

Let's say you're right about the Masoretes preserving archaic vowels  
in pausal forms. I don't know.

My point, however, was different: *why* there is pausal elongation? My  
suggestion is that it counters uptalk. Ideally, a proof would come  
from a pausal word which is elongated in declarative sentence and  
shows no elongation in interrogative clause.

Vadim Cherny


On Aug 27, 2011, at 8:40 PM, Randall Buth wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 10:06 AM, Vadim Cherny  
> <vadimcherny AT gmail.com> wrote:
> > What we have in pausal forms are two separate issues:
> >
> > 1. Why there is elongation at all (or restoration to the original  
> > vowel, in your scenario)?
> > 2. Why the epenthetic/ elongated (or restored) vowel varies?
> >
> > You offered an explanation to the second point. I doubt it mainly  
> > because of historical improbability of such restoration and the  
> > lack of Secunda evidence. In your shame'u example, ayin was lost by  
> > the time of Masoretes, but could influence them choosing e over a.
> . . .
>
> Your doubting of historical probability seems to assume that the
> Masoretes would have needed to research and insert the phenomenon in
> order to restore it. Yes, then it would appear improbable. But if the
> Masoretes were recording and preserving a tradition that retained some
> archaic features, then it is not just possible, it is probable that
> they would record things that they may not have understood themselves.
> shame`u is one piece of that evidence among many. (since it is not my
> research interest, I will not take time to list my favorite ten
> examples of masoretic preservation.)
>
> Your comment on `ayin is also curious. `ayin was lost? How did the
> Arabs preserve the `ayin and Het correctly in place names from the
> seventh century and following if the `ayin was universally lost? All
> it takes is for some of the dialects to preserve this, or for a
> liturgical tradition to preserve this, in order for `ayin to be
> preserved, correctly. Even today in Israel, many speakers of
> 'Ashkenazi-Israeli' do not pronounce `ayin or even "he" in their
> speech, but will add them when reading in a synagogue.
>
> Finally, your explanation on shame`u did not explain why laqaHu and
> nasa`u did not use 'e'.They have pharyngeals that should have
> influenced their alleged phonetic innovation. Did the masoretes just
> get lucky? Time and time again?
>
>
> > > And note some pharyngeal sister-pausals:
> > > laqaHu 'they took'
> > > and nasa`u 'they travelled'.
> > > Neither one has an etymological
> > > 'i/e' vowel, and both have the expected 'a' forms.
> > > shame`u 'they heard', on the other hand, reflects its 'stative'
> > > 'i/e' etymology. Chalk one up for the Masoretes.
> > > A hypothesis needs to cover wide data.
>
>
> braxot
>
> --
> Randall Buth, PhD
> www.biblicallanguagecenter.com
> Biblical Language Center
> Learn Easily - Progress Further - Remember for Life