Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Pere Porta <pporta7 AT gmail.com>]

Nir,

I'm focusing my attention onto this word kind and not onto words with
segol-segol.

Concerning nouns with tsere-tsere --------> there are more than those you
say. And so, XR$, deaf (Ex 4:11) and other that are not found in the Bible.

Now, nouns with tsere-segol I found recently the complete list of this noun
type -no matter they appear in the bible or not-. This list consists of
around 60 nouns and these are the ONLY to fit this vowel pattern within the
whole of the Hebrew language.

But I intended to find an answer to this question: is there a common
denominator to these 60 nouns?

As I wrote in a preceding post, I am ready to send that list to those who
are interested in the issue (preferably by private mail, unless moderators
of this forum think that it can be of a general interest for the list
members)

Regards

Pere Porta
(Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain)

2011/5/3 Nir cohen - Prof. Mat. <nir AT ccet.ufrn.br>

> dear pere,
>
> the type of questions you have been asking relate to post-masoretic hebrew,
> i.e. involves shoresh AND niqud. there is nothing wrong with this, except
> (as is becoming clear (for me) from recent correspondence) you are
> considering
> a dialect consolidated over a very long time. so, i dont know
> if you can expect very clear-cut answers or a single logic behind the
> words.
>
> my best shot is this: words with cere-segol are true nouns derived from
> verbs, and allow the plural. they contain all 3 letters of a recognized
> hebrew root. and stress on the 1st syllable
>
> the small set of words with cere-cere may have originated from other word
> constructions which do not allow the plural: teveth (the name of a month),
> and
> tevel (there is only one...). they do not coincide with the three
> letters of a recognized hebrew root (unless the late TBL=spice is included
> as a root; even there, hebrew makes an exception and calls it TAVLIYN).
> and stress on the second syllable.
>
> what these alleged "other constructions" were, i cannot imagine. as i
> fail to see agriculture in the semitic (lunar!) months, i can only
> imagine TEVETH to have an astronomical connotation - by the way,
> so does TEVEL...
>
> i also wonder why you consider those and not, for example, segol-segol.
>
> best
> nir cohen
>
>
>
> >>>> De: Pere Porta <pporta7 AT gmail.com>
> Cópia: Hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Para: Randall Buth <randallbuth AT gmail.com>
> Data: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 19:05:21 +0200
> Assunto: Re: [b-hebrew] Tevel vs Evel
> Dear b-hebrew listees,
> I'm doing a comparison between several noun types in order to make some
> systematization of their patterns.
> I find nouns consisting of three root letters with tsere in the first and
> tsere in the second.
> And so, TBL, world (Ps 19:5) or TB+, Tebeth (a month of the year) (Est
> 2:16)
> And I find nouns consisting of three root letters with tsere in the first
> but with segol in the second:
> )BL, mourning (2Sa 14:2)
> SFR, book (2Sa 1:18)
> $B+, tribe (Gn 49:10)
> Can anyone provide a good reason of this different pattern?
> I mean: not *"the Hebrew language is like this*", but, so to say, an
> "internal" reason.
> --Have nouns tsere-tsere a feature common to all them?
> --Have nouns tsere-segol a feature common to all them, a common
> denominator?
> --Could we, given this and this and this root consonants, know in advance
> which pattern (tsere-tsere or tsere-segol) the resulting noun would fit if
> both vowel sounds are to be 'e'?
> Friendly,
> Pere Porta
> (Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain)
>
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-- 
Pere Porta