Biblical Hebrew Forum

[David P Donnelly <davedonnelly1 AT juno.com>]

Hi again Kirk
B-hebrew just recently announced the passing away of Professor Anson
Rainey.
Professor Rainey was a rare Jewish Professor who both had his own
website, 
AND believed that God's name might have been "Yahweh" 

http://members.fortunecity.com/yahuwthah/Resource-577/AnsonLetter.htm

At the above link Professor Anson Rainey discusses in precise detail why
he believed that God's name was "Yahweh". Professor Anson Rainey believed
that Clement of Alexandria, who wrote:
“The mystic name which is called the tetragram­maton … is pronounced
Iaoue, which means ‘Who is, and who shall be." was a good source for the
possibility that the original pronunciation of God's name was "Yahweh". 

In my  opinion:
http://members.fortunecity.com/yahuwthah/Resource-577/AnsonLetter.htm
is a link that contains basic resources that many  B-Hebrew member who
are interested in the "Yahweh" controversy,  might just want to know
about.

Dave Donnelly
==================================================================
[b-hebrew] Resources for B-Hebrew
Kirk Lowery Kirk at GrovesCenter.org 
Tue Mar 8 09:31:37 EST 2011 
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Friends,

I'm compiling a new section for the B-Hebrew webpage: "Resources for
Biblical Hebrew." Naturally, that is a large subject, so I'm looking for
just online resources for this iteration of the webpage. I can't include
everything that is out there, but I would like to have ten or twelve
"must visit" sites that have lots of pointers elsewhere or that have
basic resources that every B-Hebrew member will want to know about.
 
 
 
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From: K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>
To: George Athas <George.Athas AT moore.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Words adopted into Biblical Hebrew Vocabulary
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George:

On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 10:30 PM, George Athas <George.Athas AT moore.edu.au>wr=
ote:

> Yes, Karl, we can't pin the date of an entire work on one word. Logically=
,
> that's correct. However, there is more than that as a factor at work here=
.
> The rationale for the date that a loanword entered a language has to form
> part of the argument as well. In other words, it's not just the word itse=
lf,
> but also the historical, linguistic, and poetic concerns.
>

Exactly. The historic evidences within the document indicate ninth century
BC authorship, language can be archaized, but the literary style is
consistent with a pre-Babylonian Exile style in a way that was not copied b=
y
any post-Babylonian Exile Hebrew documents, which also shows up in the
poetry of the document. Therefore, the claim that the one word shows late
authorship is contradicted by a far greater weight of data indicating early
authorship.

>
> With =D7=A4=D7=A8=D7=93=D7=A1, it's in all likelihood a word that entered=
 the Hebrew vocabulary
> in the Persian Era (or at a stretch just slightly earlier). It usually
> appears in poetic contexts. It's unlikely that a scribe would update a
> poetic text with new vocabulary, since poetry generally uses fancy
> vocabulary anyway. It's more likely that a scribe would update a narrativ=
e
> or legal text with a new word.
>

Sounds logical.

>
> Given that, Qohelet and Song of Songs (even more so), which both use =D7=
=A4=D7=A8=D7=93=D7=A1,
> are most likely late compositions. Otherwise, you're proposing a scribe
> updated an early poetic text (for which there is no specific manuscript
> evidence), that already had a given word (which we don't know about) mean=
ing
> 'paradise' or 'luxury estate' or whatnot, with a new word from another
> language meaning the same thing. Most unusual and, therefore, less likely=
.
> Possible? Yes, of course. Probable? Not really.
>

You keep mentioning about later scribes amending the texts, but that=E2=80=
=99s not
the question here. The question here: is it possible that this word came
into Hebrew early and possibly from sources other than Persian? The answers
to both is yes. The moment one admits that the possibility is positive, the=
n
one has nullified its presence as a date marker for later composition.
Probability is not the question, especially given the general ignorance of
the linguistic and cultural contact milieu of the ancient world (yes, we
have to admit that there=E2=80=99s a lot that we don=E2=80=99t, and may nev=
er, know).

Did an earlier form of paradeis exist in Linear-B Greek? We can=E2=80=99t r=
ule it
out as a source for ninth century Hebrew adoption, especially given
archaeological evidence for trade with Greece at that time. That is just on=
e
possible vector.

>
> Furthermore, when you get clusters of loanwords, as you do in Song of
> Songs, you start to narrow the field considerably. So, the argument that =
you
> can't base the dating of a work on a single word might be theoretically
> fine. However, in this case, I think the argument is a little blinkered t=
o
> the nature of the loanword, the nature of the composition, and the other
> linguistic factors surrounding. Ergo, it is far more likely that Hebrew
> works containing the word =D7=A4=D7=A8=D7=93=D7=A1 are later rather than =
earlier.
>
> Okay, I=E2=80=99ll bite. You mention =E2=80=9Cclusters of loanwords=E2=80=
=9D so what other
loanwords, and from which languages are we talking about here?

>
> GEORGE ATHAS
> Moore Theological College (Sydney, Australia)
> www.moore.edu.au
>
> Karl W. Randolph.