Biblical Hebrew Forum

[davedonnelly1 AT juno.com]

Hi Jason,

on Wed Jun 23 17:57:57 EDT 2010 You wrote

Maybe we shouldn't make too many assumptions here. 
Perhaps the problem is that we assume that Dave has invested some sort of
study 
(even a bit) in Hebrew outside of his ponderings regarding the
Tetragrammaton.

Dave: Have you studied Hebrew at all? "YES"
Using a textbook? "YES"
In a classroom or informally? INFORMALLY
Anything besides picking through Strong's concordance/lexicon and wading 
as you could through Gesenius' description of Ktiv/Kri as applied to the
Tetragrammaton? "YES"

Without any further obfuscations, 
what is your experience with Hebrew and why is the Tetragrammaton 
such an obsession for you when you have yet to contribute anything to the
discussion?
________________________________________________________________________

Heck Jason,

I did not know that you wanted me to make known my impressive background
in Hebrew. :-)

Why in early 2001 I was taught on line how to dissect both Jehovah and
Adonai. 

I created my own table which demonstrated very clearly that the vowel
points of [Yod-shewa-he-defective holem-waw-qamets-he] and the vowel
points of "Adonai" were not the same. 

My instructor referred to the waw as an upside down golf club, in order
to help me identify it. :-)

He explained to me that capital letter "T" , sometimes referred to as a
qamets, was not a plural. :-)

I learned a lot on line.

One on-line friend recommended that I purchase a copy of Page H. Kelley's
BIBLICAL HEBREW;
AN INTRODUCTORY GRAMMAR
I was never sorry that I bought that particular Hebrew Grammar, but I own
about 3 or more other Biblical Hebrew Grammar Books.

I surprised myself by studying Hebrew Verb Forms on my own and actually
becoming  someone knowledgeable on Genesis's Proposed Hebrew Punctuation
of YAHWEH [Yod-patah-he-silent shewa-waw-segol-he] I was lucky in that
Peter Kirk and I shared emails for several years before he left B-hebrew.

In fact at a time period when knowledge of  what Greek Word Clement of
Alexandria had actually used in his Greek Stromata Book V Chapter 6:34,
Peter and I sort of worked together, although it was Peter who 
discovered the 16th century [Probably Roman Catholic source] that claimed
that Clement of Alexandria had used "Jehovah" [an obvious error that can
still be found on the Internet]. Peter Kirk did his Sherlock Holmes act
and discovered the source of that error.  

Anyway my resume only claims that I  have graduated from Hebrew
Kindergarden, 
 and it still is questionable if I will ever get my diploma from First
Grade. :-)

FWIW

Dave Donnelly

P.S.

The first useful Hebrew fact that I learned was that the Masoretes never
pointed YHWH with the precise Hebrew Vowel points as are found in
"Adonai" .

I keep asking myself why scholarly sources don't "shout it from the
rooftop" that the Masoretes never 
placed the actual vowel points of "Adonai" into "YHWH"

Why is that Jason????? 

It is only recently I discovered on-line that Gesenius acknowledged
upfront that the vowel point under the yod in [Hebrew Word #3068] OOPS I
forgot you prefer [Yod-shewa-he-defective holem-waw-qamets-he]
And 
the vowel under the Aleph in "Adonai" are not the same vowel!!!
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>From jaihare AT gmail.com  Wed Jun 23 20:06:38 2010
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From: Jason Hare <jaihare AT gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 03:06:08 +0300
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Reading Jehovah in Psalm 16:2 and in Psalm 110:1
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Dave,

Because yod doesn't take a composite sheva. You'd know that if you
would invest more in Hebrew than the money it costs to buy grammars
that sit on your shelf. Aside from the composite vs. simple sheva, the
vowels normally placed on the Tetragrammaton (though there are
exceptions) are the same as the vowels on the word =D7=90=D7=93=D7=A0=D7=99=
 with kamats in
the final syllable.

Jason Hare
Rehovot, Israel

On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 2:22 AM,  <davedonnelly1 AT juno.com> wrote:
> Hi Jason,
>
> on Wed Jun 23 17:57:57 EDT 2010 You wrote
>
> Maybe we shouldn't make too many assumptions here.
> Perhaps the problem is that we assume that Dave has invested some sort of
> study
> (even a bit) in Hebrew outside of his ponderings regarding the
> Tetragrammaton.
>
> Dave: Have you studied Hebrew at all? "YES"
> Using a textbook? "YES"
> In a classroom or informally? INFORMALLY
> Anything besides picking through Strong's concordance/lexicon and wading
> as you could through Gesenius' description of Ktiv/Kri as applied to the
> Tetragrammaton? "YES"
>
> Without any further obfuscations,
> what is your experience with Hebrew and why is the Tetragrammaton
> such an obsession for you when you have yet to contribute anything to the
> discussion?
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Heck Jason,
>
> I did not know that you wanted me to make known my impressive background
> in Hebrew. :-)
>
> Why in early 2001 I was taught on line how to dissect both Jehovah and
> Adonai.
>
> I created my own table which demonstrated very clearly that the vowel
> points of [Yod-shewa-he-defective holem-waw-qamets-he] and the vowel
> points of "Adonai" were not the same.
>
> My instructor referred to the waw as an upside down golf club, in order
> to help me identify it. :-)
>
> He explained to me that capital letter "T" , sometimes referred to as a
> qamets, was not a plural. :-)
>
> I learned a lot on line.
>
> One on-line friend recommended that I purchase a copy of Page H. Kelley's
> BIBLICAL HEBREW;
> AN INTRODUCTORY GRAMMAR
> I was never sorry that I bought that particular Hebrew Grammar, but I own
> about 3 or more other Biblical Hebrew Grammar Books.
>
> I surprised myself by studying Hebrew Verb Forms on my own and actually
> becoming =C2=A0someone knowledgeable on Genesis's Proposed Hebrew Punctua=
tion
> of YAHWEH [Yod-patah-he-silent shewa-waw-segol-he] I was lucky in that
> Peter Kirk and I shared emails for several years before he left B-hebrew.
>
> In fact at a time period when knowledge of =C2=A0what Greek Word Clement =
of
> Alexandria had actually used in his Greek Stromata Book V Chapter 6:34,
> Peter and I sort of worked together, although it was Peter who
> discovered the 16th century [Probably Roman Catholic source] that claimed
> that Clement of Alexandria had used "Jehovah" [an obvious error that can
> still be found on the Internet]. Peter Kirk did his Sherlock Holmes act
> and discovered the source of that error.
>
> Anyway my resume only claims that I =C2=A0have graduated from Hebrew
> Kindergarden,
> =C2=A0and it still is questionable if I will ever get my diploma from Fir=
st
> Grade. :-)
>
> FWIW
>
> Dave Donnelly
>
> P.S.
>
> The first useful Hebrew fact that I learned was that the Masoretes never
> pointed YHWH with the precise Hebrew Vowel points as are found in
> "Adonai" .
>
> I keep asking myself why scholarly sources don't "shout it from the
> rooftop" that the Masoretes never
> placed the actual vowel points of "Adonai" into "YHWH"
>
> Why is that Jason?????
>
> It is only recently I discovered on-line that Gesenius acknowledged
> upfront that the vowel point under the yod in [Hebrew Word #3068] OOPS I
> forgot you prefer [Yod-shewa-he-defective holem-waw-qamets-he]
> And
> the vowel under the Aleph in "Adonai" are not the same vowel!!!
> ____________________________________________________________
> Refinance Now 4.0% FIXED!
> $160,000 Mortgage for $633/mo. Free. No Obligation. Get 4 Quotes!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c22979a9eb1a1a30bst02duc
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