Biblical Hebrew Forum

[James Christian <jc.bhebrew AT googlemail.com>]

Thankfully, I wasn't fed any of these first year lies. It was made clear to
me from the beginning that the Hebrew verb system is debate in progress. It
was made clear to me that the construct doesn't always behave itself. I was
taught to use the rule of thumb of two nouns side by side behaving
functionally like a construct and told this would be a better guide than
concentrating on form. I was also told about the variable sentence order and
the exceptions in plurals. I was also told that Massoretic points are late,
we cannot be sure of their pronunciation let alone the original pronuciation
and that they are sometime demonstrably wrong. I was also told that at
certain points in the transmission of manuscripts there were no spaces in
between words and that sometimes words are divided wrong because of copyist
errors where the copyist did not guess right how to divide the words. I was
also made aware of a range of general types of copyist errors.

All things considered I guess I had a pretty good teacher.

James Christian

On 21 May 2010 12:09, K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com> wrote:

> Barry:
>
> What I was taught in class : what I found in Tanakh
>
> Hebrew sytax, verb first in sentence : verb any place in the sentence
> Masculine plural, always end -YM : sometimes the yod is missing
>
> And in this specific case, that where two nouns are in construct, when the
> second noun is plural in a context where the first noun should also
> logically be plural (e.g. the soldiers’ feet) then the grammar follows the
> logic, i.e. the first noun is also a plural, but what I found is that the
> first noun is sometimes singular.
>
> As for the Qatal and Yiqtol, I was told that some thought them to be tenses
> as in English, other aspect as in Russian, but neither are correct. Here
> I’m
> thrust into the unknown, as none of the models predicated on Indo-European
> languages fits what I read daily.
>
> I was taught in class that the Masoretic points were correct, I stopped
> using them because I found they are sometimes wrong as far as *meaning* is
> concerned, let alone that there is no way they can be an accurate rendition
> of Biblical era pronunciation. Further, I think many of the minutia found
> in
> Hebrew grammars are there to explain misunderstandings caused by wrong
> pointing.
>
> Your question has me rattling the memory banks to try to recall other
> lessons from my first year of class that I had to forget when reading
> Tanakh, but it’s been well over a decade since I last had a Hebrew grammar
> in my hand, and I truly have forgotten those lessons.
>
> As for which Hebrew text to begin with? I am tempted to have students just
> start with Genesis within a few weeks of starting first year class,
> starting
> with the first chapter. Get the students used to reading the text, teaching
> the grammar along with the text. Even though I attended one year of college
> Hebrew, that is basically how I learned Hebrew. I mean, really learned
> Hebrew, how it is really used instead of the way it was presented in class.
>
> Karl W. Randolph.
>
> On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 8:00 PM, Barry <nebarry AT verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "K Randolph" <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>
> > To: "B-Hebrew" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 7:34 PM
> > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Ruth
> >
> >
> > > As for “first year lies” (a phrase I to which I was introduced on
> > this list, I don’t remember who taught it to me), I was taught that
> Hebrew
> > followed certain grammar, syntax and spelling rules, and all the examples
> in
> > the text books followed those rules. Later, when I started reading Tanakh
> > for myself, cover to cover, I was in for a shock—those rules were often
> > violated. I had to learn a new set of rules to fit the data before my
> eyes.
> > >
> > > My criticism in this particular example (not by any means for
> > anything with which I disagree) was that you seem to insist that Hebrew
> > follow those rules as taught in first year class, rather than how the
> > language is actually used in Tanakh.
> >
> > Beginning grammars always present an ideal version of the languages for
> > didactic purposes, usually using particular authors.  For beginning Latin
> > it's Caesar and Cicero with a dash of Vergil for flavor.  For beginning
> > (Classical) Greek it's usually Xenephon and Plato.  What beginning
> grammars
> > can't communicate is the licence that individual authors use with the
> > languages.  But this freedom is usually stylistic, lexical selection,
> > idiomatic phrases.  You never see violation of basic grammar, such as
> > subject verb agreement, and forth.
> >
> > So, what are the models for the ideal grammer of biblical hebrews.
> >
> > N.E. Barry Hofstetter
> > Classics and Bible Instructor, TAA
> > http://www.theamericanacademy.net
> > (2010 Savatori Excellence in Education Winner)
> > Mentor, TNARS
> > http://www.tnars.net
> >
> > http://my.opera.com/barryhofstetter/blog
> > http://mysite.verizon.net/nebarry
> >
> >
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