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b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] Supernatural faith and scientific faith

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  • From: James Read <J.Read-2 AT sms.ed.ac.uk>
  • To: Rolf Furuli <furuli AT online.no>
  • Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Supernatural faith and scientific faith
  • Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:59:06 +0100

Hi,

Quoting Rolf Furuli <furuli AT online.no>:

Dear James,

According to the second law of thermodynamics, the entropy (disorder)
will always increase.

Not always. Entropy can decrease if there is a greater +ve change in enthalpy. i.e. if the reaction is so exothermic that it releases enough energy to compensate for the decrease in entropy. Hence the dH term in the equation of Gibb's free energy. I think you may be confusing entropy with Gibb's free energy. Gibb's free energy always increases. i.e. the universe tends towards disorder.

But this is a general law, and there is one big
problem in applying this law to the origin of life, namely, that it
is only valid definitively or conclusively inside a closed system;

Yes. Exactly. You first have to determine the whole system so that it is closed. Opponents of the implications of the second law of thermodynamics will point out that we have to include the Sun if the system is to be truly closed. However, this is not true. You can only factor in the part of the exothermic reactions of the Sun that lead to energy entering the Earth's biosphere. This is a very small percentage of the total exothermic activity of the Sun.

in
a part of an open system the entropy can decrease, provided that it
increases somewhere else. So, I think that the only way to make an in
depth study of the origin of life is the cumbersome way that I
followed.

Also, I wrote in haste from memory. Gibb's free energy must increase for a reaction to be feasible. The equation of reaction feasability is:

dG = dH - dS

For the proposed reaction dH is -ve, dS is -ve. Therefore:

dG = -ve + -ve

= -ve

= infeasible reaction

If you are to factor in the exothermic activity of the Sun which enters the Earth's biosphere you need to show that such is sufficient to overcome both the endothermic reaction implied in the creation of a cell and the decrease in entropy implied. Even the most exaggerated of approximations would show that this is impossible.

Although, I agree your probabilistic data is also a useful angle of objective reasoning. However, die hard opponents will usually spout something like "given enough time any event no matter how unlikely can occur"

What it then all boils down to is this. The universe is tending towards disorder. If the universe had no beginning it has been tending towards disorder infinitely. Therefore, the universe should already be in total disorder. However, the universe is not in total disorder. Therefore, the universe had a beginning. Therefore, the mass that constitutes the universe had a beginning. Something came from nothing. This is scientifically undisputable.

James Christian


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