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  • From: James Read <J.Read-2 AT sms.ed.ac.uk>
  • To: K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>
  • Cc: B-Hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Genesis 41: 1: "Two Years of Days"
  • Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 21:59:59 +0100

Thanks Karl. Yes. I didn't mean that people who believe otherwise are like children. I meant to illustrate the likeness of how we (in general and not just children) find it difficult to believe something which seems to be contrary to present observations.

However, there are two ways we can interpret the fact that many nations have a flood story of some kind:

a) the story was popular and from one national origin spread across the globe in its different versions and was adopted by many different nations as part of their history

b) there really was a flood that our common ancestors survived and this story was passed down through the generations and each nation received its evolved version

In the same way there are two ways we can interpret the fact that ancient history of many nations makes claims of long life spans of their most ancient ancestors.

1) They were all involved in some international competition of who can exaggerate their history the most

2) Our common ancestors really did live longer and that is why this is attested in so many ancient histories

While I do not believe we can take every age in every ancient source literally (there are too many factors like exaggeration, copying error etc) I believe that the international proliferation of such claims is, at least, indicative that our most ancient common ancestors lived longer than our present day life expectancy.

James Christian



James Christian


Quoting K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com


:

Yigal:
The problem we have with Jim’s theories is that he starts with certain
beliefs that are outside the realm of science (they can be neither verified
nor falsified by science), in other words, faith, then tries to use it as
proof that his theories are correct.

For example, long lives, based on our present conditions. But has the human
body been so weakened by diseases and other environmental factors that
didn’t exist in the past, as well as DNA degradation, so that ancient people
could have lived longer? That’s speculation based on the historical record,
one that science cannot touch because it is dealing with what cannot
presently be observed. The surviving records don’t give an answer to the
why, just lists that the shortening lives was a gradual process.

I don’t think James was likening Jim to a child, rather that his claims are
based on beliefs that are false in the same manner as those of children who
do not know about past conditions, therefore wonder why grandparents did the
things they did. James referenced the claims, not the person.

Karl W. Randolph.

On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 2:07 AM, Yigal Levin <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il> wrote:

Dear James,

While I personally think that Jim's theory is dead wrong, there is a huge
difference between the long life-spans of biblical characters (and those in
other works of literature as well) and the examples that you listed bellow.
Humans living hundreds of years is not only not a part of our present-day
experience. It is also totally impossible within our understanding of the
laws of nature as they stand at present. Theorizing that "nature was
different in the distant past" or the "God intervened in the cases of
certain chosen people" is a statement of faith, by its nature unprovable by
any scientific method known to us. As long as you admit that your position
depends on an acceptance of the biblical text as factually accurate out of
faith, that's fine. Comparing anyone who does not accept your faith with
children is derogatory, and has no place on this list.

Yigal Levin

Co-moderator, B-Hebrew


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