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Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs
- From: Rolf Furuli <furuli AT online.no>
- To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
- Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs
- Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 17:18:28 +0200
As I argued in my review, the examples of wayyiqtol you present as
demonstrating that wayyiqtol is imperfective are better taken as
non-prototypical rather than demonstrating what the uncancellable
semantics of the form are. You have yet to counter this argument and
demonstrate why such minority of examples are wholly diagnostic of the
majority use of wayyiqtol. That you refuse to show how common examples
like wayyo'mer in Gen 12:1 can be taken as instantiating imperfective
aspect shows to me that the theory is upside down: better to take
majority of function as prototypical, which then allows for
non-prototypical examples like some present tense use or imperfective
use etc.
Regards,
David Kummerow.
It is possible to approach the BH verbal system in many ways, by the prototypical method, by discourse analysis, by a grammaticalization approach, and by a method that distinguishes between semantics and pragmatics. Every method has of course its advantages and disadvantages. My personal concerns relate to the lack of controls of most methods, to the point where almost everything goes. One can simply say without any particular data (if I understand the method correctly) that "this form is non-prototypical" because it is different from the majority of similar forms. I would like to refer to some examples.
The so-called "prophetic perfect" is a good example. In the 19th century (and in many cases also today) scholars viewed QATAL as the perfective aspect with the meaning "completed action". In the 19th century scholars ( for example A. B. Davidson) realized that many QATALs had future reference. When this was the case (I list 965 examples of QATAL with future meaning-not including future perfect), the action still *had to be* completed. So when it factually was not completed, it was postulated that it was completed in the mind of the prophet! This is an ad hoc-explanation in order to save the definition of QATAL. I go in the very opposite direction by arguing that prophetic perfect is a fiction, and that the 965 QATALs do have real future reference.
Other interesting examples of how far scholars go in order to save their theory, are the writings of H. Birkeland and F. R. Blake. For 40 years until the mid-1960s Harris Birkeland was professor of Semitics at the University of Oslo. He believed that WAYYIQTOL represented past tense, and I was taught that when I started my Hebrew studies. Another outstanding Semitic scholar in the 40s and 50s was F. R. Blake, who just as strongly as Birkeland defended the past tense meaning of WAYYIQTOL. In their writings (Birkeland (1935) "Ist das hebräische Imperfektum consecutiv ein Präteritum?" Acta Orient VIII; F. R. Blake (1951) "A Resurvey of the Hebrew Tenses With and Appendix") they both discussed the same about 125 particular WAYYIQTOLs seemingly with non-past reference, and both concluded that these were not counterexamples against the view that WAYYIQTOL represented past tense. What is interesting, however, are their arguments. Blake argued that most of the examples really had non-past reference, but they were wrongly pointed by the Masoretes and were actually copulative imperfects. Birkeland accepted that they were correctly pointed and by the help of some linguistic acrobatics, he took them to have past reference. Both *knew* that WAYYIQTOL represented past tense, and this had to be defended with all means.
Then this just means that you read back the meaning of the minority ofposition as I argued in my review.
uses into the majority of uses. But how do we know that the semantic
meaning of the majority of uses wasn't in part cancelled to allow for
the minority of uses? How do we know that the meaning found in the
minority of uses is also by default to be attributed to the majority of
uses. Here work on frequency in linguistics would tell against your
If we are concerned with temporal reference, the situation is very clear, because the deictic center and reference time is visible in most verbs. The only possible candidate for tense is WAYYIQTOL, and because the almost one thousand examples with non-past reference occur in normal contexts and by no means can be viewed as special cases, they strongly argue against a past tense interpretation. The reason for the great number of WAYYIQTOLs with past reference, is the big place of narrative texts in the BH, and here the verbs must have past reference.
If we are concerned with aspect, it is absolutely wrong to speak of "the majority of uses" and "the minority of uses". This is so because in most verbs we simply cannot see the relationship between event time and reference time, so we cannot know their aspect (one needs clairvoyance to do so). Therefore we must analyze the verbs where this relationship can be seen. And in these cases we see that both WAYYIQTOL and YIQTOL have imperfective characteristics and QATAL and WEQATAL have perfective characteristics. Here there is no majority and minority!
Best regards,
Rolf Furuli
-
Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs
, (continued)
- Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs, David Kummerow, 07/07/2009
- Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs, David Kummerow, 07/07/2009
-
Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs,
David Kummerow, 07/07/2009
- Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs, K Randolph, 07/07/2009
-
Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs,
David Kummerow, 07/07/2009
- Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs, K Randolph, 07/07/2009
-
Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs,
David Kummerow, 07/07/2009
-
Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs,
James Read, 07/07/2009
-
Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs,
David Kummerow, 07/07/2009
- Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs, James Read, 07/08/2009
-
Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs,
David Kummerow, 07/07/2009
-
Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs,
James Read, 07/07/2009
- Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs, Rolf Furuli, 07/07/2009
-
Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs,
David Kummerow, 07/07/2009
- Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs, K Randolph, 07/07/2009
- Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs, David Kummerow, 07/07/2009
- Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs, David Kummerow, 07/07/2009
-
Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs,
David Kummerow, 07/07/2009
- Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs, James Read, 07/08/2009
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