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- From: Harold Holmyard <hholmyard3 AT earthlink.net>
- To: "b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
- Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Iron and Curses in Deuteronomy 28
- Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 14:41:18 -0600
Yitzhak,
Thanks for the material on iron, but it is only modern man's conclusions about what happened. It does not determine what actually happened. The Bible says that iron was used from the beginning of civilization, and the doubts about Moses being able to use the word are questionable even in the realm of modern knowledge of the past. Wikipedia says:
The use of iron weapons instead of bronze weapons spread rapidly throughout the Near East by the beginning of the 1st millennium BC. Anatolians had begun forging weapons out of iron, which was a superior metal to bronze, by 1500 BC at the latest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Age
So if they used iron in weapons by 1500 B.C. at the latest, there is no reason why Moses could not have written about iron.
HH: Here is a bit from an article from the /Journal of Materials Processing Technology / that I did not want to pay $31.50 to access fully:
Ancient blacksmiths, the Iron Age, Damascus steels, and modern metallurgy
References and further reading may be available for this article. To view references and further reading you must purchase <http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TGJ-44J796S-G&_user=10&_coverDate=11%2F23%2F2001&_rdoc=1&_fmt=full&_orig=search&_cdi=5256&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=0e1d89cdfc533eb119b4d05d21426280> this article.
*
Oleg D. Sherby^ ^a <#aff1> and Jeffrey Wadsworth^b <#aff2>
*
^a Department of Materials Science and Engineering, Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305, USA
^b Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Livermore, CA 94551, USA
Abstract
The history of iron and Damascus steels is described through the eyes of ancient blacksmiths. For example, evidence is presented that questions why the Iron Age could not have begun at about the same time as the early Bronze Age (i.e. approximately 7000 Image ). It is also clear that ancient blacksmiths had enough information from their forging work, together with their observation of color changes during heating and their estimate of hardness by scratch tests, to have determined some key parts of the present-day iron–carbon phase diagram.
HH: One fact given in Google from the article, but which I could not access, is that: "Hoover then proceeds to give evidence for the *use* of *ancient iron*, “The oldest
Egyptian texts extant, dated 3500, refer to *iron*."
Journal of Materials Processing Technology : *Ancient* blacksmiths *...* <http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0924013601007944>
Hoover then proceeds to give evidence for the *use* of *ancient iron*, “The oldest
Egyptian texts extant, dated 3500 Image , refer to *iron*, and there is in the *...*
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0924013601007944 - - Cached <http://www.google.com/search?q=cache::linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0924013601007944+ancient+use+of+iron&hl=en&ie=UTF-8>
HH: >From an article on iron furniture came this information:
http://www.egyptdecor.com/Wrought_Iron.htm
Iron is a very common element and in Egypt iron ores occur in the mountainous areas of the eastern desert and Sinai. Archaeological evidence suggests that people have been using iron for at least 5000 years. The first signs of iron use was in ancient Egypt. Iron was more expensive than all other metals. iron was widely used in ancient Egypt but did not replace bronze for long time. Wrought iron has successfully competed with bronze for prominence since about 4000 BC and it eventually replaced the high quality bronze. It took over bronze in the manufacture of swords, axe heads, plows and other items of general use. The principal weapon of the Egyptian army was the iron bow and iron arrow. The earliest known production of steel occurred around 1400 BC. The Egyptian ruler Tutankamoun was buried with an iron dagger.
HH: Somebody else says:
http://www.touregypt.net/science.htm
The Egyptians called iron 'the metal of heaven' or ba-en-pet, which indicates that the first specimen employed were of meteoric origin; the Babylonian name having the same meaning.
It was no doubt on account of its rarity that iron was prized so highly by the early Egyptians, while its celestial source would have its fascination. Strange to say, it was not used for decorative, religious or symbolical purposes, which - coupled with the fact that it rusts so
readily - may explain why comparatively few iron objects of early dynastic age have been discovered.
One which has fortunately survived presents several points of interest: it is an iron tool from the masonry of the great Pyramid of Khufu at Giza, and thus presumably dates from the time when the Pyramid was being built, i.e. about 2900 B.C. This tool was subjected to chemical
analysis and was found to contain combined carbon, which suggests that it may have been composed of steel. By 666 B.C. the process of case-hardening was in use for the edges of iron tools, but the story that the Egyptians had some secret means of hardening copper and
bronze that has since been lost is probably without foundation. Desch has shown that a hammered bronze, containing 10.34 per cent. of tin, is considerably harder than copper and keeps a cutting edge much better.
HH: Moses was a prince in Egypt, and the Israelites received gifts from the Egyptian citizenry when they left. So they could have had access to iron metals from the top tier of society, even if it was not in general use by everyone at the time. Somebody writes:
http://www.lost-civilizations.net/ancient-egyptian-science-alchemy.html
Even as early as 3400 B.C., at the beginning of the historical period, the Egyptians had an intimate knowledge of copper ores and of processes of extracting the metal. During the fourth and subsequent dynasties (i.e. from about 2900 B.C. onwards), metals seem to have been entirely monopolies of the Court, the management of the mines and quarries being entrusted to the highest officials and sometimes even to the sons of the Pharaoh.
Whether these exalted personages were themselves professional metallurgists we do not know, but we may at least surmise that the details of metallurgical practice, being of extreme importance to the Crown, were carefully guarded from the vulgar. And when we remember the close association between the Egyptian royal family and the priestly class we appreciate the probable truth of the tradition that chemistry first came to light in the laboratories of Egyptian priests.
HH: Here is a good article on the subject of iron in Egypt:
THE USE AND PRESENCE OF IRON IN THE EGYPTIAN OLD KINGDOM.
Keith Squires 2005
http://www.gizagrid.com/egyptian_iron.html
It is copyrighted, and I am not sure if I can reproduce here for that reason.He makes it clear that iron was known in Egypt at the time of Giza pyramid's construction (dated to about 2560 B.C.). The ancient Egyptians could distinguish between different kinds of iron. He also writes:
Robert H O'Connell in 1983 translated the coffin text Spell 148, which refers to meteoritic impact as being integral to the conception of Horus. `…/the blast of a meteorite such that gods fear, Isis awoke pregnant by the seed of her brother Osiris!…/.^5 <#2> Even earlier, in 1911, Wallis Budge translated a text from the time of Pepi II (circa 2278- 2184 BC) which speaks of `/the iron which came from Set, and was in the forearm of Set; it transferred to the deceased the power of the eye of Horus'/.^6 <#2> As the constellation of the Great Bear was considered to be the abode of Set, we can reasonably conclude that at least one iron-bearing meteorite came from this direction early in the Old Kingdom.
HH: Squires says that not all the iron was meteoric:
The evidence then, seems to support the notion that the ancient Egyptians were aware of iron, and probably viewed it as a heavenly substance. And yet its association with Set makes its inclusion in the pyramid of Khufu a surprise. Petrie in the Pyramids and Temples of Gizeh, 1883, referred to the iron plate found by Hill. `…/and though some doubt has been thrown upon the piece, merely from its rarity, yet the vouchers for it are very precise; and it has a cast of nummulite on the rust of it, proving it to have been buried for ages besides a block of nummulitic limestone, and therefore to be certainly ancient/…'^7 <#2>^ His language and phraseology, both implying that he was personally familiar with the piece, and providing clear evidence of its antiquity.
However, the assumption that all iron in the Old Kingdom was of meteoritic origin is frankly untenable. In 1989 a fragment was taken from the plate found by Hill, and was tested by two eminent metallurgists Jones and Gayer who concluded that it was very ancient. Significantly they stated that the metallurgical evidence supported the archaeological evidence that it was incorporated within the pyramid when it was built.^8 <#2>^ More importantly they went on to determine that the iron was not meteoritic, had been smelted at a temperature of between 1000 and 1100 degrees centigrade, and bore traces of gold on one of the surfaces of the plate. To simply dismiss the plate as a forgery therefore is to impugn the reputation of these scientists, and yet to do otherwise is to run into a brick wall of archaeological dogma, whose mantra states that iron can only have been meteoritic at such an early stage in civilisations development.
This iron plate however, is not the only example of prehistoric ironwork, for there are many more. The most spectacular is the evidence of the Dorak hoard, unearthed in the 1920's near the village of Dorak, around one hundred kilometres east of Troy. This hoard consists of a large and intricate cache of ceremonial objects that was found within two main tombs built of rectilinear, cyclopean masonry. In one of the tombs they found a male skeleton, with elaborate grave goods, one item of which was a sword with a silver blade, upon which was engraved a fleet of seventeen, oared, ships. In another of the tombs a wooden throne was found, enabling reliable dating to take place. Some vestiges of gold ornamentation remained, including the unmistakable hieroglyphs of Sahure, of Egypt's 5^th Dynasty, whose reign is traditionally dated to 2487-2475 BC, and who came to the throne a mere 79 years after the death of Khufu. Most of the weapons in the tombs were bronze, which by itself is extraordinary during this Chalcolithic period, but one artefact was more special. It had a blade of iron, and a hilt crafted in black obsidian in the shape of two leopards. ^9 <#2> If the dating is correct, then this early culture had mastered the use of iron during, or before, the Egyptian Old Kingdom.
HH: Squires gives other evidence for the early use of iron in Egypt:
On the 11^th of November 1994 experimental archaeologists built a replica of these furnaces, placing blow pipes into the blast holes, which were used to supply air to the enclosed furnace. A thermocouple probe was inserted which showed that a temperature of 1000° Centigrade was easily reached and maintained. When more than one person blew air through the tubes, temperatures far in excess of this figure were reached. ^19 <#4>^ A painting on a Theban tomb, number 386 in Upper Egypt, dated to around 2000 BC depicts just such a furnace. So there is nothing in the metallurgy that precludes the early smelting and tempering of iron, other than the assumption that hot-hammering could not have taken place. What is perhaps ironic is that archaeologists accept that Bronze was known in early Dynastic times in Egypt, but not produced there until much later. This has a lot to do with the absence of tin, but there was no such shortage of iron ore, which was available in Ancient Egypt.
Notwithstanding the previously mentioned examples of early iron in Egypt, there are others, which are less commonly known. As early as predynastic times haematite ore was fashioned into beads, and amulets, and other iron compounds were used as pigments.^20 <#4> The earliest evidence for worked iron is similarly from pre-dynastic Egypt, where two lots of small tubular beads were found at Gerzeh. Although completely oxidized, Professor Gowland who analysed them, was of the opinion that they had originally been metallic iron made by bending a small sheet of iron into a tubular shape. Further analysis has shown that this material was meteoritic in origin. ^21 <#5>
However a 4^th Dynasty remnant of iron oxide, that was originally part of a magic set found in the Menkaure Valley temple by George Reisner; when examined was proven to have no nickel content. As all meteoritic iron contains nickel, it was accepted that this object must have had a terrestrial origin. ^22 <#5> Several iron 5^th Dynasty objects were found by Maspero, including chisels from Saqqara, pieces of a pickaxe from Abusir of the 6^th Dynasty, and further broken tools at Dahshur, said to be of similar date. Modern archaeology questions these finds, but they are far from being unique. Petrie found a mass of iron rust together with 6^th Dynasty copper adzes, in the foundations of a temple at Abydos, and was absolutely certain they were of the same date. When tested chemically there was no nickel content, and hence this rust was similarly terrestrial. ^23 <#5> In the opinion of the early archaeologists Coghlan and Wainwright, iron was undoubtedly known in the Near -East as early as the third millennium BC but its use was very limited, and the making of useful iron on a large scale was probably first achieved by the Hittites in the fifteenth century BC. ^24 <#5> Certainly by the time of Amenhotep III, iron was sufficiently well known that Tushratta wrote to the Pharaoh offering him a present of a sacred knife of iron, and iron rings covered with gold.^25 <#5>
HH: Squires also gives reasons why we don't find many iron objects of very ancient date:
There is scant evidence to form an opinion, as the scarcity of iron finds, leaves little for analysis. An entirely understandable state of affairs, as iron is not a substance known for its longevity. Buried in any soil, little would remain after a millennium, let alone nearly five. In the Egyptian soil in particular, the situation would be even more acute. As Lawton and Ogilvie-Herald point out, the high level of nitrates in the Egyptian soil would cause any exposed iron to disintegrate rapidly, which might account for its rarity, but even so, it would be likely to leave some form of rust impression.^10 <#3> And while this is undoubtedly true, the assumption that all iron must have inevitably decayed reveals a modernist viewpoint that ignores another facet of the equation. Modern man is the beneficiary of a throwaway culture, and we should not assume that in the early days of metal smelting, ore was sufficiently abundant as to be accorded a similar fate. The likelihood is that except for rare ceremonial usage, metal would have been re-cycled.
HH: The author explains that it is not necessary to melt iron in order to use it:
What holds back the acceptance of iron in antiquity, apart from the rarity of finds, is the erroneous assumption that it must have been poured to make it useable. It is a fact that Iron ore is more widely distributed on Earth than either copper or tin, and that its metallurgy is on the face of it much more complicated than that of bronze. A temperature of around 1535° Centigrade is necessary to cause iron to melt sufficiently so that it will flow, but that is a lot higher than the temperature necessary to work it usefully. Just because ancient metalworkers could not cast iron, does not mean they could not work it. A temperature as low as 900° Centigrade in a charcoal furnace will easily separate iron from its ore. The resultant metal being denser falls to the bottom of the furnace and forms slag.
HH: He even gives another suggestion as to why Moses may not have wanted iron tools used to cut the stone altar (I had always assumed it was to make it more natural and less manmade):
And yet, this does not relay the whole picture, for it is undoubtedly significant that iron was from the earliest of times, associated with Set. As the demon of Egyptian religion until his rehabilitation in Ramesside times, images and artefacts of Set were excluded from Pharaonic temples and tombs. Placing metal objects attributed to him into a tomb would have been a desecration. It may also be significant, that amongst the legends of all the cultures who worked in stone, were particular taboos about the use of iron in stone monument construction. Deuteronomy for example makes the case eloquently /"…thou shall build an altar unto the Lord thy God, an altar of stones: thou shall not lift up any iron tool upon them./"^28 <#6> Even had such a prohibition not been the case, the tombs were designed for eternity, and it would have been abundantly clear to even these early Egyptians that iron rusts rapidly. Consequently the inclusion of iron objects would have been illogical.
HH: He thinks the Egyptian iron was imported, and here is his guess as to where it came from:
Wilson suggests these early metal workers were a race known to the Greeks as Chalybians (From the Greek for iron), or Tibarenians, who are a race often credited with being the first to smelt iron. ^30 <#6> A suggestion seemingly devoid of corroboration, and yet the Sumerian word for metalworker was `tibira'. Given the presence of early Egyptian artefacts amongst the grave goods of the Dorak hoard, it seems likely that a sophisticated trading network existed between the two cultures. Although there were undoubtedly iron ores in the early Egyptian homeland, the abundance of iron ore in the mountainous Caucasus region makes it more probable that this unknown culture was the source of the iron found in the Great Pyramid, rather than the other way round. If for no other reason, that following the demise of the Old Kingdom, iron is not found in Egypt until the time of Amenhotep III, and then by way of importation. Yet, to judge by the strange, seemingly structural, non-ceremonial use of the metal within the Pyramid, it would appear that iron was better known than the scarcity of finds would suggest. A conclusion supported by the Ugaritic texts of north Syria, whose culture declined around 1200 BC, and which speaks of the god Chusor, who was the inventor of iron and ironwork. Philo of Byblos likened him to the Greek Hephaestus, but it is clear from the texts that his origins lay in deepest antiquity. ^31 <#6> Clearly a body of knowledge that would have taken many centuries of practice in order to attain the level of sophistication that the iron plate and the Dorak sword both demonstrate, has disappeared from the historical record. Seemingly in a similar manner to the demise of higher-level mathematics that I have found evidence for.
Yours,
Harold Holmyard
-
[b-hebrew] Iron and Curses in Deuteronomy 28,
Gabe Eisenstein, 02/06/2009
- Re: [b-hebrew] Iron and Curses in Deuteronomy 28, K Randolph, 02/06/2009
- Re: [b-hebrew] Iron and Curses in Deuteronomy 28, George Athas, 02/07/2009
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Re: [b-hebrew] Iron and Curses in Deuteronomy 28,
Gabe Eisenstein, 02/07/2009
- Re: [b-hebrew] Iron and Curses in Deuteronomy 28, K Randolph, 02/07/2009
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Re: [b-hebrew] Iron and Curses in Deuteronomy 28,
K Randolph, 02/07/2009
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Re: [b-hebrew] Iron and Curses in Deuteronomy 28,
Yitzhak Sapir, 02/08/2009
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Re: [b-hebrew] Iron and Curses in Deuteronomy 28,
K Randolph, 02/09/2009
- Re: [b-hebrew] Iron and Curses in Deuteronomy 28, Yitzhak Sapir, 02/09/2009
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Re: [b-hebrew] Iron and Curses in Deuteronomy 28,
K Randolph, 02/09/2009
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Re: [b-hebrew] Iron and Curses in Deuteronomy 28,
Yitzhak Sapir, 02/08/2009
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Re: [b-hebrew] Iron and Curses in Deuteronomy 28,
K Randolph, 02/07/2009
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Re: [b-hebrew] Iron and Curses in Deuteronomy 28,
Harold Holmyard, 02/07/2009
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Re: [b-hebrew] Iron and Curses in Deuteronomy 28,
Yitzhak Sapir, 02/07/2009
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Re: [b-hebrew] Iron and Curses in Deuteronomy 28,
Harold Holmyard, 02/08/2009
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Re: [b-hebrew] Iron and Curses in Deuteronomy 28,
Yitzhak Sapir, 02/08/2009
- Re: [b-hebrew] Iron and Curses in Deuteronomy 28, Harold Holmyard, 02/08/2009
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Re: [b-hebrew] Iron and Curses in Deuteronomy 28,
Harold Holmyard, 02/08/2009
- Re: [b-hebrew] Iron and Curses in Deuteronomy 28, Yitzhak Sapir, 02/09/2009
- Re: [b-hebrew] Iron and Curses in Deuteronomy 28, K Randolph, 02/09/2009
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Re: [b-hebrew] Iron and Curses in Deuteronomy 28,
Yitzhak Sapir, 02/08/2009
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Re: [b-hebrew] Iron and Curses in Deuteronomy 28,
Harold Holmyard, 02/08/2009
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Re: [b-hebrew] Iron and Curses in Deuteronomy 28,
Yitzhak Sapir, 02/07/2009
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Iron and Curses in Deuteronomy 28,
Gabe Eisenstein, 02/08/2009
- Re: [b-hebrew] Iron and Curses in Deuteronomy 28, George Athas, 02/08/2009
- Re: [b-hebrew] Iron and Curses in Deuteronomy 28, K Randolph, 02/09/2009
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