Biblical Hebrew Forum

[LM Barre <l_barre AT yahoo.com>]

The documentary hypothesis is based upon probability.  It is the most 
probable thesis because it best accounts for the textual phenomena.
 
I wonder how many detractors have actually read through the sources.  I 
showed the P has his own separate chronology from J in my article, "The 
Riddle of the Flood Chronology," JSOT.
 
Lloyd Barré
http://freewebs.com/lmbarre
 

--- On Wed, 2/4/09, K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com> wrote:

From: K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] A different generation of biblical scholarship
To: "B-Hebrew" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 1:12 AM

George:

On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 4:22 PM, George Athas
<George.Athas AT moore.edu.au>wrote:

> Come on, Karl. You might not agree with the source critics (I find myself
> disagreeing largely with them), but surely you know the arguments for
source
> criticism.


Yes, I do. That's why I call it "faith" and "belief".


> The evidence is the text of the Hebrew Bible itself. Of course they use
> interpretation - you have to. You cannot say or do anything without
> interpretation.


Disagree. See below.


> Yet, even the position which disagrees with source criticism uses
> interpretation.


Agreed!

That's why I say it is equally invalid as an evidential position.


> It cannot be escaped.


Depends on what you are talking about.

If we look at the Westminster text, either it has a certain set of dots, or
it doesn't. There's no interpretation there. Either the text carries a
certain message, or it doesn't. It's a yes / no question, no maybes.
The
same goes back through the DSS and LXX.

We can extend these questions to literary styles, grammar aspects,
lexicography, euphemisms and other such speech, and so forth. All of these
are based on evidence that people can point to. There's disagreement on
some
of it, but ultimately either the text has certain words, or it doesn't.

On the other hand, did Moses write Exodus about 1440 BC, or did an editor
about 300 BC put the finishing touches on a composite work? Both are
interpretations built on pre-chosen ideologies / religious beliefs. Until
that is recognized, neither can convince the other of the correctness of its
position, and then all we can hope for is tolerance and understanding. To go
beyond that is proselytism.

One example, do the different words for God refer to different sources of
documents, or did even the earliest documents indicate  that the people
recognized one God, but that he had a few titles besides his name? The
answers to that question shows how the different ideologies interpret the
same data. And the different ideologies / faiths predetermine the answers to
those questions.

This is what I understand Rolf Furuli suggesting as a third way to discuss
the text.


> The interpretation argument is a straw man.
>

Straw man of what?

>
>
> Regards,
>
> GEORGE ATHAS
> Moore Theological College (Sydney, Australia)
> www.moore.edu.au
>

Respectively, Karl W. Randolph.
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Many scholars accept the documentary sources
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Conservatives do not accept it because it denies that Moses wrote the 
Pentateuch.  Jesus said the Moses wrote it, but he was uncritical in his 
time.  Modern biblical scholarship did not really get going until the 18th 
century.

 
Lloyd Barré
http://freewebs.com/lmbarre
 

--- On Wed, 2/4/09, Bryant J. Williams III <bjwvmw AT com-pair.net> wrote:

From: Bryant J. Williams III <bjwvmw AT com-pair.net>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Many scholars accept the documentary sources
To: l_barre AT yahoo.com, "b-Hebrew" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 6:54 AM

Dear Lloyd,

Amongst "mainstream" scholars "so-called" it is accepted.
Amongst conservative
scholars it is NOT accepted.

Rev. Bryant J. Williams III

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "LM Barre" <l_barre AT yahoo.com>
To: "b-Hebrew" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 3:25 PM
Subject: [b-hebrew] Many scholars accept the documentary sources


The documentary hypothesis is accepted by mainstream biblical scholarship.

Lloyd Barre'


Karl wrote:

>Questions in Pentateuchal studies that postulate a J, E, P or any other
>such source hypothesis, because they have no evidence, are pushing
>beliefs. Those are the little questions that are irrelevant.

I would like the moderators' opinions on this statement. I've always
understood they were in scope. I understand why Karl wants them out
but it requires his idiosyncratic definition of evidence. Needless to
say, but I'll say it anyway, his definition of evidence is not shared
by many scholars.





Lloyd Barr
http://freewebs.com/lmbarre




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>From George.Athas AT moore.edu.au  Wed Feb  4 17:01:23 2009
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THREAD CLOSED!


Regards,

GEORGE ATHAS
Co-Moderator, B-Hebrew
(Sydney, Australia)