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b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] About Dagesh's

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  • From: Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu>
  • To: Yakov Hadash <yakov.hadash AT gmail.com>
  • Cc: b-hebrew Hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] About Dagesh's
  • Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 23:31:52 -0400

Yakov,

I am sorry, but it is NI$EQ not NI$EK. By local convention K = kaph and Q = qoph.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Jun 16, 2008, at 11:06 PM, Isaac Fried wrote:

Yakov,

Allow me to write V for a soft bet, and B for a hard. Also, F for a
soft pe and P for a hard. Recall also that $ is shin.
So we have in Hebrew DAVAR, 'thing, word', but also DABAR, 'leader,
speaker'. We have NAFAX, 'blew', but also NAPAX, 'blacksmith'.
I do not know why there is a dagesh in the middle radical of the piel
form, but does it practically matter now if we write NI$EK, 'kissed',
without a dagesh in the $? Those who pretend to read it NI$-$EK
delude themselves. I think that BK"P became hard thereby only
incidentally, but now we are stuck with this phenomenon and need to
say DIBER, not DIVER.
Look at the word KAF, 'palm of the hand'. 'My hand' is KAPI. Why is
the pe now dgusha? Because, say the grammar books, the word is from
the root KPP. So what? Does this have to turn an F into a P?
Conclusion: The less you explain the better off you are.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Jun 16, 2008, at 9:43 PM, Yakov Hadash wrote:

On Jun 16, 2008, at 8:11 PM, Isaac Fried wrote:
We will need to keep the dot, the "dagesh qal", in the letters
bet, kaf, pe to distinguish between their "hard" and "soft"
manifestation. Otherwise, the dagesh is redundant in plain speech.

Yeah but you didn't address my issue.

Without the dagesh hazak, there is no way of explaining a lot of
confusing issues with vocalizing Hebrew, especially with פיעל
and התפעל, which have dagesh hazak as part of the stem.

Do you want people to just not be able to know why there's a noun
"davar" and a verb "medabber" (and not "davar" and "medaver")?

YH.

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