Biblical Hebrew Forum

["K Randolph" <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>]

Pere:

On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 8:05 PM, <pporta AT oham.net> wrote:

>
> > > (PP)
>
> Karl,
> from a Hebrew viewpoint,
>
> 1. For the first sentence you are mistaken:
>
> "He rolls on the floor", autotransitive use, equivalent to HITHPOLEL
> Look at point 2. in  www.oham.net/out/IS-t1/IS-t1.065.html


I was using the English meaning of "roll" which can be either transitive or
intransitive. But looking at the Hebrew verb GLL, apparently it is used only
as a transitive verb, hence hitpholel for the reflexive use. E.g. 2 Samuel
20:12.

> <http://www.oham.net/out/IS-t1/IS-t1.065.html>
>
> 1. For the latter sentence you are mistaken:
>
> "He rolls the ball", transitive use, equivalent to HIPHIL
> Look at point B. in www.oham.net/out/P-d/P-d055.html
>
> __________


Genesis 29:3, 8; Proverbs 26:27. The hiphil is never found.

>
>
> (KR)
>
>  "The ball is rolled" transitive use, actor not mentioned, equivalent to
> > niphal.
> >
> ___________
>
> (PP)
>
> (Always from a Hebrew viewpoint)
>
> Wrong.
> "The ball is rolled" > "The ball is caused to roll" ----- Huphal (not
> Niphal)
> Look at A. in www.oham.net/out/P-t/P-t347.html


This verb is not found in the passive, so we can't answer for certain which
form. But since the hiphil is not found, rather the transitive use uses the
qal; if it were used in the passive, it should use the niphal.

> <http://www.oham.net/out/P-t/P-t347.html>
>
> Heartly,
>
> Pere Porta
> (Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain)
>
> You are thinking as a grammarian, how it should be if the language
followed the rules consistently; I as a lexicographer. how people actually
used the language.
Getting back to RWC, I think the evidence indicates that it was used as a
transitive verb, not only as an intransitive verb, hence the niphal use was
possible. Not only possible, but actually used.

Karl W. Randolph.