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  • From: <pporta AT oham.net>
  • To: "Isaac Fried" <if AT math.bu.edu>
  • Cc: B-Hebrew Hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Ecc 12:6: BWR
  • Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 06:12:03 +0200

The acts RUC, KUM, SUR, $UB appear to be inherently voluntary [as opposed to
NI-RDAM, 'fell asleep' and the corresponding NE-(OR, 'woke up, bestirred', as
in Zechariah 2:17] and hence a Niph'al form is not listed for them. The roots
SUG, 'deviate, recede', MUG, 'melt away, dissolve', PUC, 'disperse', RUM,
'lift', are listed in the Hebrew grammar books as "having" a Niph'al form, so
I do not see why RUC should not have it.

If the Niph'al form of MUG is NA-MOG, of PUC is NA-POC, 'became dispersed',
and of RUM is NA-ROM, why not RUC -> NA-ROC. The NA-MOG-U KOL YO$BEI KNA(AN
of exodus 15:15 could equally well have been NA-SOG-U KOL YO$BEI KNA(AN or
NA-POC-U KOL YO$BEI KNA(AN or NA-ROC-U KOL YO$BEI KNA(AN, 'dispersed are all
the inhabitants of Kna(an'.

_____________

I agree that in the Bible itself some intransitive verbs ayin-waw are used in
Niph'al.
Examples: in Joel 1:18; Is 1:4 and Ez 16:7 (all of them pattern
www.oham.net/out/PS-d/PS-d1759.html)

But I realize that as regards RWC, to run, none of the dictionaries nor
lexicons I have at hand lists its Niph'al as an existing and real binyan.
Then maybe our NAROC would be a Niph'al form (thus an exception to the
general fact that RWC lacks Niph'al)?

Pere Porta





Isaac Fried, Boston University



On Apr 5, 2008, at 12:18 AM, <pporta AT oham.net> wrote:

As regards "to run"... are you sure that it is one of them?
If yes, do you think that:


1. I run 20 miles every week -- is intransitive use
2. I cannot run this program -- is transitive use?




Correct on both. Or another example, "The snake oil salesman was run
out
of
town."


_______


Yes, Karl.
From an English viewpoint this is as you write. But from a Hebrew
viewpoint
it is wrong.
The Hebrew view of the sentence is:
"The snake oil salesman was caused to run out of the town"
Namely, the Huph'al and not the Niph'al of "run".
I mean: the right word --if we should to translate the sentence into
Hebrew-- would not the Niph'al of RWC, but the Huph'al of RWC. Look at
B.2
in www.oham.net/out/P-d/P-d083.html
and remark the examples taken from the Bible.
I suggest you to take advice whether the Niph'al of RWC really exists.


Warm greetings!


Pere Porta


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