Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Uri Hurwitz <uhurwitz AT yahoo.com>]

  Karl,
   
    Not all can agree to your statement:
   
  "The last generation that we can all agree on that learned Biblical
Hebrew at their mothers' knees was the first generation born during
the Exile".... 

Karl W. Randolph."

   
    Keep in mind just two facts: not all the  Northern and Judean
   populations were exiled; secondly, the Hebrew the residents spoke 
  underwent marked changes - under various influences - and became 
  the "Mishnaic" language. The latter simply could not have been
  an artifical invention by scholars, devised only to be written.
   
    True, in the second Temple period and later both Aramaic and 
  Greek became more and more spoken, but Hebrew was still in use.,
  (Cf. the Bar Kokhba letters), though it became rarer.
   
    In fact, the houshold of Yehuda the Prince, the redactor of the 
  Mishnah, c 200 CE was praised in that "even the maid" spoke
   Hebrew.
   
    Uri
   
    BTW my remarks above are general. I didn't mean to discuss
  the date of Daniel.
  
 

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From: "Bryant J. Williams III" <bjwvmw AT com-pair.net>
To: <JimStinehart AT aol.com>, <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] 6-Month "Year"
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Dear Jim,

Remember that Joseph in Genesis 39 was sent to prison because of the false
accusation of attempted rape by Potiphar's wife. He was a full-blown adult at
that time in charge of the entire household.

You are still trying to stretch the evidence beyond what it is capable of. In
fact, as you persist it becomes more and more untenable.

Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <JimStinehart AT aol.com>
To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 7:58 AM
Subject: [b-hebrew] 6-Month "Year"


>
> George:
> 1.  You wrote:  "The word *na`ar*  does not have as its basic meaning 
> someone
> who is
> young of age.  Rather, it has the sense of someone who  is inexperienced.
> This often  corresponds with people who are young in age, and therefore who
are
> inexperienced in life, but not always. It might also refer to someone who is
> inexperienced at a trade or profession (i.e., a trainee or apprentice).  In
> any case, it generally is indicative more of social status than actual  
> age."
> (a)  The Internet sources all seem to say that "na'ar" means what you say it
> does not mean:  "someone who is  young of age".
> Strong's definition of "na'ar":  "a boy…, from the age of infancy to
> adolescence;  by implication, a servant…: -- babe,  boy, child,…lad, 
> servant,
young
> (man)."
> Blue Letter Bible:  "a boy,  lad, youth, servant, retainer".
> Gesenius:  a boy or a  servant.
> (b)  But let's go with your  view that the primary meaning of "na'ar" is
> "someone who is inexperienced".  However, I hope you will agree that a  male
age 8
> – 13 would be a "na'ar" in any event, regardless of how experienced  or
> inexperienced he might be.  Fair  enough?
> Now we ask the key question.  Is Joseph described in this text as being
> "inexperienced"?  Here is what the text says:
> "And the keeper of the prison committed to Joseph's hand  all the prisoners
> that were in the prison;  and whatsoever they did there, he was the  doer of
> it.  The keeper of the  prison looked not to any thing that was under his
hand,
> because the LORD [YHWH]  was with him;  and that which he  did, the LORD
> [YHWH] made it to prosper.  And it came to pass after these things, that the
butler
> of the king of  Egypt and his baker offended their lord the king of Egypt.  
> …
> And he put them in ward in the house of  the captain of the guard, into the
> prison, the place where Joseph was bound.  And the captain of the guard
charged
> Joseph to be with them, and he ministered unto them;  and they continued a
> season in  ward."  Genesis 39: 22-23;  40: 1,  3-4
> On those facts, how can you view Joseph as being  "inexperienced"?  Joseph 
> is
> running  the most important jail in Egypt.  "[W]hatsoever they did there, he
> was the doer of it.  The keeper of the prison looked not to  any thing that
> was under his hand…."
> When these two high Egyptian officials have been thrown into jail, Joseph  
> is
> not their servant.  Rather,  Joseph is their jailkeeper.  "And  the captain
> of the guard charged Joseph to be with them, and he ministered unto  them; 
> and
> they continued a season in ward."
> Conclusions
> (1)  Joseph is not  "inexperienced".  Joseph is running  the most important
> jail in Egypt.
> (2)  Joseph is not a servant  of the Egyptian high officials who have been
> thrown into jail.  Rather, Joseph is their  jailkeeper.
> (3)  Why then does the  innocent, honest Egyptian high official (the cup
> bearer/butler) later refer at  Genesis 41: 12 to Joseph as having been a
"na'ar"?
> Because, using the 6-month "year"  concept, Joseph was age 13 years, in
> regular, 12-month years, at the time.  Joseph was a "na'ar" only in the 
> sense
of
> his age.
> (4)  If Joseph had been a  middle-aged man, age 28 in regular, 12-month
> years, which is the scholarly view,  then Joseph would have failed all three
tests
> of being a "na'ar".  Joseph is not inexperienced, Joseph was  not a servant 
> of
> the jailed Egyptian officials, and a middle-aged man age 28  regular years
> would not be a "young" person.
> 2.  You wrote:  "For this reason, I think you're engaging in  special
> pleading to make
> your 6-month year work. Just because you can provide  an explanation for 
> many
> aspects of something does not mean that your explanation  is probable."
> My theory of the 6-month "year" explains  every single stated age in the
> Patriarchal narratives, beginning at Genesis 11:  26.  How can that be
"special
> pleading", when it explains 100% of the stated ages in this  text?
> 3.  You wrote:  "In conclusion: I  still don't buy your theory - you haven't
> convinced
> me  yet."
> We  have seen that Ishmael is a "na'ar" who is carried by his mother into
> exile.  Certainly the scholarly view  that Ishmael was age 16 regular years 
> at
> that time makes no sense.  On the 6-month "year" view, Ishmael was  age 9½
> regular years, which makes perfect sense.  We have seen that Joseph is a
"na'ar"
> who is the jailkeeper of high Egyptian officials.  Joseph cannot be age 28
> regular years,  as the scholarly view would have it, or else the formerly
jailed
> official would  not describe middle-aged Joseph, his former jailkeeper, as
> being  "na'ar".  No, Joseph is a "na'ar" because, under  the 6-month "year"
view,
> Joseph was age 13 regular years at the time.  Sarah doesn't give birth to
> Isaac at age  90 regular years, as the scholarly view would have it.  No, on
the
> 6-month "year" view, Sarah is  age 45 regular years.  Sarah is not  
> attractive
> to Pharaoh at age 65 regular years, as the scholarly view would
> nonsensically have it.  No, Sarah is  age 32½ regular years.  Isaac is not
age 37 regular
> years when he is referred to as a "na'ar" at Genesis 22: 5, 12,  and he
> innocently asks his father:  "'Behold  the fire and the wood;  but where is
the
> lamb for a burnt-offering?'"  Genesis 22: 7  On the 6-month  "year" view,
Isaac
> is age 15 regular years.  Jacob/"Israel" does not wait until he is  in his 
> 70s
> to marry, for heaven's sake.  Joseph isn't a mere helper to his 
> half-brothers
> by his father's minor  wives at age 17 regular years, nor would Joseph 
> tattle
> on those brothers at age  17 regular years.  Rather, Joseph is  a mere boy,
> age 8½ regular years, at the time, which makes perfect  sense.
> Note that the scholarly view of the ages of the people in  the Patriarchal
> narratives consistently is nonsensical and directly contradicts  what the
Hebrew
> text plainly says, whereas all ages make perfect sense on the  6-month 
> "year"
> view.
> "[Y]ou haven't convinced me  yet."
> Have I at least convinced you that (i) the  scholarly view of the ages of 
> the
> people in the Patriarchal narratives makes no  sense at all, based on what
> the Hebrew text clearly says, and that (ii) all ages  make perfect sense on
the
> 6-month "year"  view?
> The text of the Patriarchal narratives is  perfect, as is.  We just need to
> re-examine our interpretation of this text.
> Joseph, as the jailkeeper of the most  important prisoners in Egypt, was not
> "inexperienced", nor was Joseph a servant  of those officials who had been
> thrown into Joseph's jail.  No, Joseph was a "na'ar" because, on the  
> 6-month
> "year" view, Joseph was age 13 regular years at the time.
> Jim  Stinehart
> Evanston,  Illinois
>
>
>
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