Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] Assumptions about ANE ages that just don't work.

b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Biblical Hebrew Forum

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: Yigal Levin <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>
  • To: b-hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Assumptions about ANE ages that just don't work.
  • Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 08:43:06 +0200

Dear Yaakov,

All of the evidence that we have, from the very earliest written documents (about 3,300 BCE in Mesopotamia, 3,100 in Egypt, in any case much earlier than any assumed date for Abraham) points to an accute awareness of the yearly cycle and its seasons. You are correct in noting that in Israel, and in most of the Middle East as well, there are really only two seasons - hot and dry; cold and wet. But that cycle is important for pastoral (shepherd) nomads, to know to move from summer pasture to winter pasture, and of course for the earliest agraculturalists, back in the Neolithic period, c. 8,000 BCE in the Middle East (such as at Jericho). Anthropological study of pre-modern cultures of recent generations has shown the same. And CERTAINLY by the time Genesis was written (even if by Moses!), a year was a year and a month was a month. Have a look at Gen. 8:22.

The fact that some ANE cultures celebrated the new year in the spring and others celebrated it in the fall, and that both are reflected in the Bible, does not mean that each semester counted as a "year". There is simply no evidence of that. The Mishnah, as I'm sure that you know, actually lists FOUR "new years", each for a different purpose. It's like begining the calendar year, the school year, the tax year and the football season on different dates. Of, if you will, like Jews, Chinese and any member of a "non-Christian" culture in the Western world celebrating (or at least marking) both the Jan. 1st New Year, and their own cultural or religious new year.

And James, none of the written or physical evidence that we have shows that people in the ANE lived any longer than humans do today. If anything, "average" people lived less, due to disease, warfare, and malnutrition. Most of the people who are mentioned in the written sources are memebers of the upper classes, who had it better. The only people in ancient sources who are said to have lived longer are legendary figures such as Gilgamesh.

There are really only two ways to deal with the extra-ordinary lifespans of the biblical ancestors. The first is to assume that the references are alagorical, part of the literary style of Genesis, not to be taken literally and that it is our task to try to understand what the author(s) meant to convey by giving their characters such long lives. The other is to assume that these special individuals had especially long lives because God chose to give them long lives, not because everyone else also lived so long. Then we can try to figure out why God gave these individuals long lives. You can take your choise, but there is really no reason to try to hold both ends of the stick.

Yigal Levin





----- Original Message ----- From: "Yaakov Stein" <yaakov_s AT rad.com>
To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Assumptions about ANE ages that just don't work.


James,
Abram's father dies at the age of 205. That's three times greater than
modern life expectancy. It is therefore safe to assume that Te'rah
aged
three times slower than modern humans. And so if a modern human would
be in
his prime until 30 Terah would have been in his prime until he was
about 90.

Is a factor of three needed, or is a factor of two enough ?

Terah could dies at the old age of 205/2 = 102,
and Abraham at 75/2 = 35 took off from Haran.

The reason I mention that 2 is enough,
is that I believe that in this part of Genesis
the counting is by seasons, rather than years.

In Israel there are two seasons, namely the wet season and the dry
season.
They both commence with a "new year" celebration,
the Tishri new year and the Nissan one.

One can speculate that there was an early period when each season was
counted,
and only later, with more sophisticated astronomical knowledge,
did the transition to our years occur.

At an even earlier period, time was counted by months,
which would explain Methuselah's 969 / 12 = 80 !

If you think about it, the idea of a year being the time it takes
for the sun to revolve around the earth (or the other way around for the
ancients)
is a rather sophisticated one. The first thing a group of shepherds
would notice
would be the month (the menstrual cycle, the moon coming up over the
same hill).
Later, when agriculture becomes important, the season is more critical.
Finally, with more culture and time on their hands to develop an
astronomy,
the idea of a full year (the setting sun returning to the same place
with respect
to the stars) becomes obvious.

Yaakov (J) Stein
_______________________________________________
b-hebrew mailing list
b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew



--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.13/1074 - Release Date: 16/10/2007 14:14







Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page