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b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] Definite Article 7:14 - HNH

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  • From: Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu>
  • To: JoeWallack AT aol.com
  • Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Definite Article 7:14 - HNH
  • Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:45:31 -0400

Joseph,

1. I agree with Harold that HINEH does not require physical presence.
2. The Hebrew "definite article" does not require the defined to be mentioned earlier in the discourse if he is known otherwise.
3. Virgin is a theological code word that has no correspondence in the Hebrew bible, and hence the discussion (ALMAH/virgin is vain.
4. Things would look and sound much better if you replace "definite article" by "non-arbitrary article".
5. The fact that the prophet said HA-(ALMAH [like saying HA-MALKAH] implies that he was referring to a known person. The rest is theology.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Jul 17, 2007, at 12:58 PM, JoeWallack AT aol.com wrote:


In a message dated 7/16/2007 11:05:39 AM Central Daylight Time,
hholmyard3 AT earthlink.net writes:

Dear Joseph,
"
יד לָכֵן יִתֵּן אֲדֹנָי הוּא, לָכֶם--אוֹת: הִנֵּה
הָעַלְמָה, הָרָה וְיֹלֶדֶת בֵּן, וְקָרָאת שְׁמוֹ,
עִמָּנוּ
אֵל. 14 Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign: behold, the
young
woman shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
"

The closest Textual Marker I see here to the offending word is:

הִנֵּה

Common translations are "here is", "behold" and "look". For starters, BDB

Lexicon looks to me to give a most often usage in the Jewish Bible of a
connotation of the visual as in pointing to something physically present.
This is a
Natural combination to the use of the definite article for the young woman
as
the picture is Isaiah physically pointing to the young woman in the
presence
of Ahaz.

HNH is a relatively common word though and has a broader meaning than the
physical connotation. BDB gives the next usage category as emphasizing the

connotation of an attention getting device for new information and has
categorized 7:14 here (mistakenly in my opinion).

HH: Your claim here that HNH has to point to an event which is
happening, rather than to one in the imminent or even distant future, is
incorrect. Look at one of the first references to HNH in the Bible:

Gen. 6:13 So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people,
for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going
to destroy (HNH plus first person suffix plus Hiphil participle) both
them and the earth.

The flood was some time away when God spoke these words because Noah had
not yet built the ark or collected the food and animals. HNH can refer
to the future, especially with the so-called "futurum instans"
participle. Other examples are Gen 6:17; 1 Sam 3:11; and 2 Kings 7:2.




JW:
I did not indicate in what you quoted by me that "HNH has to point to an
event which is
happening, rather than to one in the imminent or even distant future". What
I did indicate
is that BDB gives a most common meaning of physically present. So you have
not
responded to my point that physical presence is the most common meaning and
responded to a point I did not make.

Moving forward from the definite article of 7:14 which is usually translated
as "the"
to the surrounding Textual Markers and Context, we now have HNH at the start
of the
sentence which supports the Hebrew definite article here as referring to a
young
woman who was physically present. This explains, for Peter's benefit, why
the young
woman does not need to be named by the text. The definite article is
primarily for the
benefit of the Hebrew Hearer and not the reader. What is most important here
is that
Ahaz knows who the young woman is and not that we do.

As HNH is supporting the definite article as meaning not only that the young
woman was
known to Isaiah but also Ahaz this increases the demand on the surrounding
context to
clearly counter this conclusion if the author intended to communicate a
young woman
that was not known to Isaiah or at least not known to Ahaz.



Joseph Wallack





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