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Re: [b-hebrew] verb forms - Isaiah 56:6-7 was dying you shall die
- From: Peter Kirk <peter AT qaya.org>
- To: Harold Holmyard <hholmyard3 AT earthlink.net>
- Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
- Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] verb forms - Isaiah 56:6-7 was dying you shall die
- Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 23:57:12 +0100
On 17/04/2007 21:17, Harold Holmyard wrote:
Isaac Fried wrote:On this one I am more or less with Isaac, on the general principle if not the detail. It seems clear that in a wide variety of language families including Semitic, personal endings of verbs etc (suffixes and occasionally prefixes) are generally forms of the relevant personal pronouns, which were initially separate and gradually became merged with the roots, with phonological changes resulting from that. This merging of roots and suffixes had probably already taken place in the earliest reconstructable proto-forms of the language families I am familiar with: Indo-European, Semitic and Turkic. Indeed the similarities between the endings in these languages suggest that the merger may have taken place even before these three families split (if indeed they did). Nevertheless there are clear indications that such a process did take place in the remote past.
...HH: Of course it can be otherwise. The verbs could always have had suffixes and prefixes. Separate independent pronouns are used together with verbs with prefixes and suffixes sometimes.
How do I know all this? If you come to think of it, it cannot be otherwise.
See the following simplified chart.
Data for proto-Indo-European from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_language and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_pronouns_and_particles. Data for Turkic from "Sravnitel'no-istoricheskaya grammatika tyurkskikh yazykov - Morfologiya", Nauka, Moscow 1988, pp.204, 347.
1sg 2sg 3sg 1pl 2pl 3pl
Proto-Indo-European
pronouns* me te tom nos wos tons
tem tehns
verb suffixes -mi -si -ti -mes -the -nti
Proto-Turkic
pronouns man- san- in- biz siz
verb suffixes -man -syng -syghyn -lyq -synglar -syghynlar
-myn -synyz
Proto-Semitic
pronouns
verb suffixes
(I will leave others to fill in this last section.)
* PIE pronouns given in the accusative as nominatives are sometimes very different.
It seems to me that there is enough commonality between all of these lists to propose a common origin for all three sets of suffixes and all three sets of pronouns.
See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostratic#Personal_pronouns which I found after I wrote the above.
--
Peter Kirk
E-mail: peter AT qaya.org
Blog: http://www.qaya.org/blog/
Website: http://www.qaya.org/
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Re: [b-hebrew] verb forms - Isaiah 56:6-7 was dying you shall die,
davidfentonism, 04/15/2007
- <Possible follow-up(s)>
-
[b-hebrew] verb forms - Isaiah 56:6-7 was dying you shall die,
Uri Hurwitz, 04/16/2007
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Re: [b-hebrew] verb forms - Isaiah 56:6-7 was dying you shall die,
Isaac Fried, 04/17/2007
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Re: [b-hebrew] verb forms - Isaiah 56:6-7 was dying you shall die,
Harold Holmyard, 04/17/2007
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Re: [b-hebrew] verb forms - Isaiah 56:6-7 was dying you shall die,
Peter Kirk, 04/17/2007
-
[b-hebrew] Question on Tetragrammaton,
Jerry Shepherd, 04/17/2007
- Re: [b-hebrew] Question on Tetragrammaton, Jerry Shepherd, 04/17/2007
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Re: [b-hebrew] verb forms - Isaiah 56:6-7 was dying you shall die,
Harold Holmyard, 04/17/2007
- Re: [b-hebrew] verb forms - Isaiah 56:6-7 was dying you shall die, Peter Kirk, 04/18/2007
-
[b-hebrew] Question on Tetragrammaton,
Jerry Shepherd, 04/17/2007
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Re: [b-hebrew] verb forms - Isaiah 56:6-7 was dying you shall die,
Peter Kirk, 04/17/2007
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Re: [b-hebrew] verb forms - Isaiah 56:6-7 was dying you shall die,
Yonah Mishael, 04/17/2007
- Re: [b-hebrew] verb forms - Isaiah 56:6-7 was dying you shall die, Isaac Fried, 04/18/2007
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Re: [b-hebrew] verb forms - Isaiah 56:6-7 was dying you shall die,
Peter Kirk, 04/18/2007
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Re: [b-hebrew] verb forms - Isaiah 56:6-7 was dying you shall die,
Yonah Mishael, 04/18/2007
- Re: [b-hebrew] verb forms - Isaiah 56:6-7 was dying you shall die, Isaac Fried, 04/19/2007
- Re: [b-hebrew] verb forms - Isaiah 56:6-7 was dying you shall die, Peter Kirk, 04/19/2007
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Re: [b-hebrew] verb forms - Isaiah 56:6-7 was dying you shall die,
Yonah Mishael, 04/18/2007
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Re: [b-hebrew] verb forms - Isaiah 56:6-7 was dying you shall die,
Harold Holmyard, 04/17/2007
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Re: [b-hebrew] verb forms - Isaiah 56:6-7 was dying you shall die,
Isaac Fried, 04/17/2007
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