Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Uri Hurwitz <uhurwitz AT yahoo.com>]

Well said, Michael.
   
  It is good to keep in mind that the ancient writers were not grammarians,
  and didn't know what grammar was. They used the language as was
  the custom in their time. Also, they made occasional mistakes, as did the
  editors and those who transmitted the texts long before the masoretes.
   
  Uri 
   
  Michael Abernathgy wrote:
   
  I know that the Qatal commonly refers to the past
but do you acknowledge any acceptions to that?
Such as when the verb refers to a continuing state.
Gen 4:9.
  9 
וַיֹּאמֶר 
יְהוָה 
אֶל־קַיִן 
אֵי הֶבֶל 
אָחִיךָ 
וַיֹּאמֶר 
לֹא 
יָדַעְתִּי 
הֲשֹׁמֵר 
אָחִי 
אָנֹכִי׃
And the LORD said unto Cain: 'Where is Abel thy brother?' And he said: 'I 
KNOW not; am I my brother's keeper?'

Gen 32:11

קָטֹנְתִּי 
מִ‍כֹּל 
הַחֲסָדִים

I am too little for all the mercies. . .

How do you interpret Isaiah 5:13 as a prediction of future captivity or 
something said after the captivity has begun?

13 לָכֵן 
גָּלָה 
עַמִּי 
מִ‍בְּלִי־דָעַת
 וּכְבוֹדוֹ 
מְתֵי רָעָב 
וַהֲמוֹנוֹ 
צִחֵה צָמָא׃

Isa 5:13 Therefore My people are gone into captivity, for want of knowledge; 
and

their honourable men are famished, and their multitude are parched with 
thirst

Sincerely

Michael Abernathy





       
---------------------------------
8:00? 8:25? 8:40?  Find a flick in no time
 with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
>From peter AT qaya.org  Thu Apr 12 17:42:42 2007
Return-Path: <peter AT qaya.org>
X-Original-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Received: from mail.bcisgnet.co.uk (mail.bcisgnet.co.uk [212.100.232.232])
        by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 308FD4C010
        for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 17:42:42 -0400 
(EDT)
Received: from mail.bcisgnet.co.uk (mail.bcisgnet.co.uk [212.100.232.232])
        by mail.bcisgnet.co.uk with ESMTP id l3CLgewX012909
        (SMTP Authenticated by TLS version=TLSv1/SSLv3
        cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) ;
        Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:42:41 +0100
Message-ID: <461EA7E1.3070607 AT qaya.org>
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:42:57 +0100
From: Peter Kirk <peter AT qaya.org>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: michaelabernat9001 AT sbcglobal.net
References: <v0421013dc241de9e95b2 AT 64.3.184.5>  
<461C4349.9030305 AT earthlink.net><461CBED2.6040703 AT qaya.org>     
<461D15BF.4020100 AT earthlink.net>        
<acd782170704111053ye5040e7y7e39385e23d3ab89 AT mail.gmail.com>    
<00af01c77c67$a9adbdc0$6401a8c0@Averatec3250>   <461D43C6.5040002 AT qaya.org>   
  <00ea01c77c88$65b9cb60$6401a8c0@Averatec3250>   <461D6901.7010207 AT qaya.org> 
    <010901c77c97$c7d13130$6401a8c0@Averatec3250>   
<461E03D1.9000006 AT qaya.org><006401c77d0d$ae83ab60$6401a8c0@Averatec3250><461E464D.6000007 AT earthlink.net>
        <007f01c77d13$70b6b060$6401a8c0@Averatec3250>
        <000c01c77d3d$a21a2d10$0202a8c0@homebedroom>
In-Reply-To: <000c01c77d3d$a21a2d10$0202a8c0@homebedroom>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Virus-Scanned: Scanned by ClamAV (http://www.clamav.net/
X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 212.100.232.232
Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] verb forms - Isaiah 56:6-7 was dying you shall die
X-BeenThere: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Biblical Hebrew Forum <b-hebrew.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/b-hebrew>
List-Post: <mailto:b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 21:42:42 -0000

On 12/04/2007 21:03, michaelabernat9001 AT sbcglobal.net wrote:
> Lisbeth,
>
> I know that the Qatal commonly refers to the past
> but do you acknowledge any acceptions to that?
> Such as when the verb refers to a continuing state.
> Gen 4:9.
>   9 וַיֹּאמֶר יְהוָה אֶל־קַיִן אֵי 
> הֶבֶל אָחִיךָ וַיֹּאמֶר לֹא יָדַעְתִּי 
> הֲשֹׁמֵר אָחִי ×Ö¸× Ö¹×›Ö´×™×ƒ
> And the LORD said unto Cain: 'Where is Abel thy brother?' And he said: 'I 
> KNOW not; am I my brother's keeper?'
>
>   
It is common in several languages to use the past tense of a verb for 
"know" with present meaning, meaning more like "have come to know".

> Gen 32:11
>
> ×§Ö¸×˜Ö¹× Ö°×ªÖ¼Ö´×™ מִ‍כֹּל הַחֲסָדִים
>
> I am too little for all the mercies. . .
>
>   
"Stative" verbs like this are well known to be exceptions to the normal 
verb form rules. Perhaps YD` could be understood as partially stative.

-- 
Peter Kirk
E-mail:  peter AT qaya.org
Blog:    http://www.qaya.org/blog/
Website: http://www.qaya.org/