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  • From: Yigal Levin <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>
  • To: b-hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Mis(.)rayim
  • Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 10:47:18 +0200

Isaac,

The Egyptians themselves called their land KMT (vocalllization unclear), which means "black", referring to the dark earth of the fertile Nile valley, as compared with the "yellow" sands of the surrounding deserts (so I have been taught - I do not claim to be an expert on Egyptian). The Hebrew word seems to be Semitic. MCR does mean "streight" or "border", and is certainly related to CR, "narrow". As you mentioned, the Arabic "Misr" does not inlucde the dual ending. The Hebrew seems to be dual, which COULD be a reflection of the way the Egyptians spoke about their land, not the literal meaning of the Egyptian name.

Not all scholars agree, BTW, that the "ayim" ending of some place-names is really a dual form.

Yigal Levin


----- Original Message ----- From: "Isaac Fried" <if AT math.bu.edu>
To: "Yigal Levin" <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>
Cc: "b-hebrew" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Mis(.)rayim


Yigal,

OK, but what is then this Misr- part of Misrayim (as you prefer to spell it)? Is it Hebrew? Is it meaningful? Is it ancient Egyptian? Does it mean mistress?

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Mar 22, 2007, at 3:40 AM, Yigal Levin wrote:

Isaac,

The reason that the "double" ending of the biblical word Misrayim is assumed
to reffer to upper and lower Egypt is because there is plenty of
documentation that the Egyptians themselves considered their country to be a
union of "the two lands". The differences between the two are very real:
Upper Egypt is a narrow strip of watered land on either sides of the Nile,
cut off from the rest of the world by the great deserts to the east and the
west, developing (pretty much) its culture in isolation. Lower Egypt is the
flat, wide-open and expansive Nile Delta, open to the sea and to the major
trade routes connecting it to Asia. The Egyptians realy did consider these
to be two separate lands, united in the person on the Pharaoh, "master of
the two mistresses". Think of England and Scotland.

Yigal Levin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Isaac Fried" <if AT math.bu.edu>
To: "Uri Hurwitz" <uhurwitz AT yahoo.com>
Cc: "b-hebrew" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Mis(.)rayim


Uri,

You are right---who knows. I am only suggesting an obvious
possibility. Look at the map and you will see that Egypt is indeed
just two narrow and long strips of land along the Nile. It is not
clear to me why my etymology should be more "far fetched" than yours.
It appears to me that the name of a country (in the ancient sense of
the word, not in the modern geopolitical sense as drawn on a map),
who knows how old, is likelier to be derived from a permanent and
apparent geographical feature of the terrain rather than from a
transient political system. Isn't the ancient Egyptian symbol for a
foreign country a wavy landscape? I really do not know why the
present Arabic name of Egypt---originally the land of the Copts =
Egopts, is MISR.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Mar 21, 2007, at 8:27 PM, Uri Hurwitz wrote:

Isaac Fried if at math.bu.edu
Wed Mar 21 17:46:56 EST 2007
Previous message: [b-hebrew] Kush - and Mis(.)rayim
Dear Isaac,

The fact of the two Egypts was well recgonized by the ancient
Egyptian
themselves, and marked in various ways.

As for your suggestion, do you mean the green, culivated strips
on the shores of the Nile? A bit far fetched, - but who knows?
And besides, how does one explain the Arabic name, identical to the
Heb., but in the singular.


Uri,

Or in reference to the two narrow (CARIM) strips along the Nile.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

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